Today's Guardian carries a long piece by regular columnist Polly Toynbee, in which she suggests that British children will be largely oblivious to the Christian message of The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe. But the iconography, which has been heavily touted by evangelical Christian groups on both side of the Atlantic, represents a muscular, macho Christianity 'that thinks might is proof of right.' And she invokes Philip Pullman in making her case: read more.
[…]Philip Pullman – he of the marvellously secular trilogy His Dark Materials – has called Narnia “one of the most ugly, poisonous things I have ever read”.
Why? Because here in Narnia is the perfect Republican, muscular Christianity for America – that warped, distorted neo-fascist strain that thinks might is proof of right. I once heard the famous preacher Norman Vincent Peel in New York expound a sermon that reassured his wealthy congregation that they were made rich by God because they deserved it. The godly will reap earthly reward because God is on the side of the strong. This appears to be CS Lewis's view, too. In the battle at the end of the film, visually a great epic treat, the child crusaders are crowned kings and queens for no particular reason. Intellectually, the poor do not inherit Lewis's earth.
I've just been thinking (yes, I know it doesn't happen often) but how do authors get money from books borrowed from the library?
That crazy Polly! She's writing all these cool columns all the time.
There is an utter boatload of these Narnia articles at the moment. 219 on Google News, to be precise. I\’m getting a little tired of it all to be honest; we\’ve known Pullman\’s position for years.
Public Lending Right
I\’m tired of it, too, but this article is far better written and reasoned than most of them.
Incidentally, I saw some clips of LWW on Richard and Judy today, and they were [i]awful[/i].
I\'m in agreement with Kinders. What\'s more, it\'s IMO refreshing to see an article on Narnia that doesn\'t end with \'but atheists can still find much to enjoy\' or something of that kind.
At least all of these are raising PP's celebrity a tiny bit at a time! But you know what, there are the Lewis and Tolkiens of this world and there are the Pullmans. They're great authors, they had(ve) strong views. Okay.
That's all, wish these journalists would remember that and get over it. It's kind of like a harry potter review, all about the buzz, not the actual movie/book.
regarding your comment will, \"There is an utter boatload of these Narnia articles at the moment. 219 on Google News, to be precise. I\'m getting a little tired of it all to be honest; we\'ve known Pullman\'s position for years.\"
what are you going to do when lots of small reviews (not physically small, but community papers that tell us nothing new) come out for the HDM movies?
I found Mrs./Ms Toynbee\\\'s article deplorable. She writes as if the movie (and the books) did her a personal wrong. As much as she may think so, the movie is not going to instigate a crusade or an inquistion; far from it I think. People, like me, are probably going to see the movie as a chance to have a nice evening out. I find the key point here the power of fantasy and the written word. Alright, Lewis used fantasy and writing to convey his religious beliefs, and he succeeded, as proven by the reliese of this movie and Toynbee\\\'s very own article. This does not, however, make what he did a crime, and I don\\\'t think Toynbee has the right to walk all over the man\\\'s grave. Besides which, I\\\'m sure Tolkien converted Lewis on a motorcycle ride to the zoo, so I don\\\'t know what Toynbee was thinking with that \\\"walk at night – coming of dawn\\\" comment.
Jess: I'll ignore them. Like at the moment we don't post every single mention of HDM, since, like I said, most of them are "another series Potter fans might like is.."
I have to reword what I said up there. I suppose that one disadvantage of posting free-style is first draft-only draft. I don\'t find Toynbee\'s article deplorable. I find her blatant attack on Lewis deplorable, and the influence of Narnia (religiously speaking) exaggerated. However, when it comes down to it, her article is very well written, well supported, and (religious aspects aside) her human message is wonderful as well, just like Pullman\'s. Well, now I feel better.
^ Deplorable?
She didn't use the Deplorable Word, did she? 🙂
She used deplorable like, five times…
Ms Toynbee has been taking the atheist stand for many years. I remember when she used to scatter the Believers to the four winds with her challenging comments back when she wrote in the Radio Times. Plus, she was always the Voice of Reasoned Atheism on 'Moral Maze' type programmes on the telly. Once her expulsion from decent society was suggested(honestly)from a bunch of outraged Christians via the Radio Times letters page.
I've seen the visuals for the narnia pic and I must say that the designs for the creatures lack imaginative flair,which IS deplorable.I won't bother going to see it because I was never interested in being preached at by my choice of fiction ,I hope with the Pullman movies that they give the first installment the Joan Aitkenesque flavour it deserves and not the full-blown fantasy OTT treatment.Northern lights is a tale not a fantasy book
She?!? If Kyrie is a she, then it\'s the name of my daemon. LOL. It\'s just a term I got from the dictionary. I happened to turn to \"K\", looking for a cool name, and there it was – with a fairly significant meaning. Look it up.
To make my point clearer: (The Bard, Ceres, and Philip Pullman should pay special attention): The following is a copy-paste from an essay from this, my much beloved website, BTTS-
VII. THOU SHALT NOT BURN BOOKS.
I have a feeling all the Potterheads and Pullmanites of the world will love this one. This is both literal and metaphorical; there is more than one way to burn a book. This commandment covers actual book-burning and any kind of censorship. The suppression of ideas is one of the things the Republic generally abhors, because it goes against basic principles of human freedom.
-End of copy-paste. It is because of this very commandment of the Republic of Heaven that I find Toynbee\'s article \"deplorable\". She writes as if she has a stomachache. What she should have done, I think, is: calmed down (i.e. not huffing), and tried to make people aware that the movie the LWW had an underlying religious message, and thus be wary of mentioned message. Here I point up to my previous comments, she should not, I think, have written as if the movie and books did her a personal wrong.
Final note on this topic: The \"commandment\" above is from the columns and essays section of this website, and is the first essay under \"Religion\". Give it a go. I hope Sir Somebody Something, the author, doesn\'t mind my drawing so much attention to it. 🙂 Although, I am sure that for any fans of BTTS, that essay is already well known.
The Deplorable Word was the evil spell spoken by Queen Jadis which led to the extinction of all life in the world of Charn (in The Magician's Nephew). I'd thought the reference would be understood in a Narnia-related thread. 😉
So Kyrie, what you wan't is for her not to have an opinon? Turns out that if we don't have an opinion, we don't have anything at all, our opinions and preferences are what makes us who we are.
Lol. :laughing: The power of imagination – a wonderful thing.
\"Imagination is more important than knowledge.\" – Albert Einstein
That is why I would not condemn Lewis for his writing. What, then, would stop others from rightfully condemning me? All it would be after that is both sides claiming that they know what is right and what is truth. Let the writers write and the dreamers dream, and let everyone know that it is they that are responsible for their actions, and no one else but themselves. They cannot blame what they do on a higher power when they act in its name, let them know that as well. That is the power of human choice, all we can do is try to inform them, and then hope they choose for the best. Beyond that and the world, history, will have moved in full circle.
Your absolutely right Mr. Bard, and no, I\'m actually very happy Toynbee expressed her opinion – it gave me the chance to express mine. 🙂
Well there you go, can't argue with that
:laughing:
For most of us our doubts about Faith are not going to be solved by how people interpret some children's fantasy books. Let them at I say, and long live Ms Toynbee. That should be Norman Vincent Peale, by the way, not Peele, unless he has changed his name since the last time he spoke on behalf of the rich who are going to inherit the Kingdom of God.
^Agreed.
the narnia books are very good, even if i love the HDM books i don't think that a writer needs to tell bad things of difrent books so his book will be the best. just let the people read it and they'll desaid what they like better.