M:Would Subtle Knife be cheaper to make and more successful?

[Aurone]

Now let's say if......and that's a BIG if right now, New Line felt the need to continue HDM and do Sublte Knife. If it was done right, couldn't it be cheaper?

Here's why I wonder, most of the book takes place it Cittàgazze, which for the most part is very much like Will's world, the city being that of the tropics. Another portion takes place in Will's Oxford. Then there's the few occurances in Lyra's world and the briefe scene at Lord Asrial's Fortress. My thinking is that aside from Pan, The witches, The windows and Spectre's, most of the shooting will take place in normal Oxford and some place that would pass for Cittàgazze, which if the right location is found, wouldn't need the big time Blue Screen SFX. This would mean they wouldn't need nearly as much time on Special Affects for daemons and sutch, and the finances wouldn't be nearly as high as Golden Compass. Granted I couldn't say the same for Amber Spyglass, but still.

Thoughts?

[keitharc]

I just wrote a post about how New Line screwed up Compass and how it might be atoned for on the DVD. I'm pretty sure most people who love the books will agree with me and if I'm repeating things that have already been said, I apologize but I haven't read many posts so I don't know most people's opinion. These are my personal opinions on how New Line can make a big profit with the Subtle knife:

1-Don't sell off foreign rights on Subtle Knife and this time you will make back the entire budget just on overseas box office. Everything else will be profit. Which leads to point number

2-Chris Weitz and the effects guys have already climbed the steep learning curve needed to render the daemons and Iorek successfully so it will be much cheaper and easier to accomplish the task this time. Plus as another message said, most of the book takes place in Cittagazze and Our world so except for Pan and Boreal's serpeant, there will be alot less rendering of daemons except in Lyra's world. This is a good thing because what was a great literary touch in the books became cumbersome on screen, everything felt cramped because the actors were always having to watch where daemons were at all times. There is no reason in my mind why this movie should cost more than 100 million. The only new effects that will need to be created will be the specters which shouldn't be that difficult, just don't make them too much like dementors. The similarities of the two struck me but Azkaban and Knife were written at the same time so neither could have known what the other was writing. I guess great minds think alike. All this leads me to point number

3-Make the specters scary and really sell that along with the budding love story (which I'll talk about in my next point) in the trailers. A great way to start the trailer would be for the knife to slash through the air during the fight where Will inherits the knife and then cut to Lyra entering Cittagazze and so on but push the budding relationship and the eerie, horrifying aspect of the specters and of course Will mastering the knife. The specters in my opinion should be ghostly, whisps of smoke where every once in a while you see a corpse-like face that envelopes you and leaves you with nothing but a useless body. The trailers for Compass had too much exposition and not enough explanation about Lyra and her Journey. This movie will have a much more effective trailer because of the nature of the story and because most people will hopefully understand and be more familiar with the narrative from the DVD.

4- I am not a big fan of love stories, especially movie love stories but the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass is one of the most beautifully written, heartfelt and heartwrenching love stories I've read. In my opinion the second two books are as much a love story as they are an adventure story, or a metaphysical parable. I am not ashamed to admit I cried at the end of Amber when Lyra and Will realize they can never see each other again. I don't cry easily but that really got to me. Knife and Amber will not do Titanic numbers but push the budding romance in trailers and America will respond. The whole world is a sucker for a love story and the next two novels deliver a truly wholesome, honest, beautiful friendship that blossoms into a love that changes everything. Not just the world but every world. Subtle should easily double the domestic take of Compass and Amber might even get to Narnia level, if they don't screw it up again.

5- Really bring out Mrs. Coulter's villainy and viciousness. The scene where she tortures the witch is a perfect way to really make her true involvement in this wicked endeavor known. She and the golden monkey are a fearsome and utterly vile creature at this point in the story and that needs to be brought out more than it was in Compass. It's also a great scene to bring out Serafina's bravery and merciful side. She was woefully underwritten in the first movie.

6- Make a directors cut before the next movie comes out and really flesh out the secondary characters so they seem like real human beings (or Bears or Witches) and market the DVD differently by having the trailer bring out Lyra's journey and mission and of course have it build up to the Bear fight at the end. People will rent what they won't see in the theater. Even a great deal of the ones who didn't see it because some rogue priests got their name in the paper and told them not to go see it. That definitely piqued their interest and they will check it out on DVD.
If New Line does all that I really think they can turn this all around and make this into a very profitable franchise.

If you like what I've written and want to post any part of it anywhere else, please feel free to do so. I would love for the suits at New Line to read this. The sequels need all the help they can getting made so if you think I have valid, useful points, then let's get the word out.

[williamparry]

Well said!
I agree with you 100%

Tobi

[LadySylvia]

I just wrote a post about how New Line screwed up Compass and how it might be atoned for on the DVD.

I don't think that New Line Cinema had screwed up THE GOLDEN COMPASS . . . at least as far as the movie's production. The movie's marketing is another matter. I've seen the movie twice and I've just finished reading the novel. All they did was change some of the major situations around and deleted the less important scenes. This is typical of a movie adaptation of any novel. Look at THERE WILL BE BLOOD, which is supposed to be an adaptation of Upton Sinclair's novel, OIL!. The movie barely resembles the novel, yet no one is complaining.

If they do make a movie version of THE SUBTLE KNIFE, I hope that they don't allow Will's character to overshadow Lyra's . . . like Pullman did in his novel.

[keitharc]

I just wrote a post about how New Line screwed up Compass and how it might be atoned for on the DVD.

I don't think that New Line Cinema had screwed up THE GOLDEN COMPASS . . . at least as far as the movie's production. The movie's marketing is another matter. I've seen the movie twice and I've just finished reading the novel. All they did was change some of the major situations around and deleted the less important scenes. This is typical of a movie adaptation of any novel. Look at THERE WILL BE BLOOD, which is supposed to be an adaptation of Upton Sinclair's novel, OIL!. The movie barely resembles the novel, yet no one is complaining.

If they do make a movie version of THE SUBTLE KNIFE, I hope that they don't allow Will's character to overshadow Lyra's . . . like Pullman did in his novel.

I don't think the movie was screwed up except that it could really have used a bit more character developement. If Compass was a good movie I think Chris Weitz can make the next two great, he just needs to be given the freedom to follow his vision. I do agree that Will should not come to dominate the movies although the actor who plays him needs to project a lot of strength and (sorry for the pun) willpower. The story begins with Lyra's journey and that should always be the main focus of the story.

[LadySylvia]

I don't think the movie was screwed up except that it could really have used a bit more character developement.

Character development can only go so far in one chapter in a multi-story saga.

[namster]

4- I am not a big fan of love stories, especially movie love stories but the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass is one of the most beautifully written, heartfelt and heartwrenching love stories I've read.

It's one of the only love stories I'm fond of in popular literature, with characters that you actually care about and smart moments of tenderness between them -- like when Will speaks to Pan ("She thinks you are the bravest person she's ever known. As brave as the bear."). They're wonderful characters and we're happy to see them together and they're not just a pair of cheesy forlorn yuppies.

6 - Make a directors cut before the next movie comes out and really flesh out the secondary characters so they seem like real human beings...

You've read my thoughts! The director's cut DVD (or, preferably, an Extended Edition, but that's a pie in the sky at this point) is the most profitable investment New Line can make this year, besides investing in The Subtle Knife. An investment in a director's cut is a direct investment in the profitability of the sequels and then some!

Subtle should easily double the domestic take of Compass and Amber might even get to Narnia level, if they don't screw it up again.

If New Line does all that I really think they can turn this all around and make this into a very profitable franchise.

The Subtle Knife could easily smash Narnia's box office to eeny-bitty atoms if New Line makes the right decisions next time. A little faith in its filmmakers can go a long way, as Peter Jackson proved. A shame that they forgot about that fact somewhere along the road. New Line stood to profit so much by buying the rights to His Dark Materials, and frankly they still stand to profit from The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass. Like "money flowing out of sewers and sinking Venice, Italy" kind of profits. Anyone who's read His Dark Materials can attest to its potential as a (...well-made...) film adaptation.

If you like what I've written and want to post any part of it anywhere else, please feel free to do so. I would love for the suits at New Line to read this. The sequels need all the help they can getting made so if you think I have valid, useful points, then let's get the word out.

Hell yeah! We should band together an army -- a-la Army of the Twelve Monkeys -- and write letters until the sequels get made. Barring that, well, we could just free animals from public zoos...

All they did was change some of the major situations around and deleted the less important scenes. This is typical of a movie adaptation of any novel. Look at THERE WILL BE BLOOD, which is supposed to be an adaptation of Upton Sinclair's novel, OIL!. The movie barely resembles the novel, yet no one is complaining.

Yes, it's much more faithful to the novels than what people would have you believe. Weitz has stated that he's always wanted to keep the spirit of the books alive, and judging by what I've seen, d__mit, he's made a good effort to preserve that spirit.

[LadySylvia]

I really don't like THE SUBTLE KNIFE that much. If a movie is made based upon it, I hope there is an improvement on the story.

[sfsraffie]

I really don't like THE SUBTLE KNIFE that much. If a movie is made based upon it, I hope there is an improvement on the story.

"That is *heresy*!"

[paula]

The trailers for Compass had too much exposition and not enough explanation about Lyra and her Journey. This movie will have a much more effective trailer because of the nature of the story and because most people will hopefully understand and be more familiar with the narrative from the DVD.

Yes i think the trailers for Compass were to full on. You watched them and it was like "wow what the heck was that" I don't think the trailers really encouraged people who hadn't read HDM's to see the film as they wouldn't really have a clue from the trailers what kind of story it would be. I know there's only a limited amount of time for a trailer but i still think it could of been done better.


Paula

[Pan_Fan]

yes everything you wrote is perfectly what im thinking.... haha you should mail this to new line

[virtualgamesco]

haha you should mail this to new line

A good lot that will do. If sent virtually, it will be marked as spam, and if sent via UPS, it will be thrown away, deemed junk mail. We're a minority; they don't care if we like their decisions or not.

[Kyrillion]

2-Chris Weitz and the effects guys have already climbed the steep learning curve needed to render the daemons and Iorek successfully so it will be much cheaper and easier to accomplish the task this time.

Um, no, my dove, doesn't work like that. Creating characters like this is Rhythm and Hues/Framestore/etc bread and butter. the latter have worked on most of the Potter films. There was no need for a learning curve. If you don't beleive me, I've just sat through a talk by one of the guys at the Framestore who created the bears.

Yes, the models for Iorek and Pantalaimon are already rigged and ready to animate but that's a tiny part of the workload.

[jpaul]

Now let's say if......and that's a BIG if right now, New Line felt the need to continue HDM and do Sublte Knife. If it was done right, couldn't it be cheaper?

Here's why I wonder, most of the book takes place it Cittàgazze, which for the most part is very much like Will's world, the city being that of the tropics. Another portion takes place in Will's Oxford. Then there's the few occurances in Lyra's world and the briefe scene at Lord Asrial's Fortress. My thinking is that aside from Pan, The witches, The windows and Spectre's, most of the shooting will take place in normal Oxford and some place that would pass for Cittàgazze, which if the right location is found, wouldn't need the big time Blue Screen SFX. This would mean they wouldn't need nearly as much time on Special Affects for daemons and sutch, and the finances wouldn't be nearly as high as Golden Compass. Granted I couldn't say the same for Amber Spyglass, but still.

Thoughts?

Well yeah, I think so. And I really hope they would make it for The Subtle Knife. They left people hanging on The Golden Compass. People who haven't read the books will find the whole HDM drooped.

[Yrael]

haha you should mail this to new line

A good lot that will do. If sent virtually, it will be marked as spam, and if sent via UPS, it will be thrown away, deemed junk mail. We're a minority; they don't care if we like their decisions or not.

We are the REPUBLIC HEAVEN!
Our views on anything on HDM should be considered the upmost of importance!

[Ian]

We are the REPUBLIC HEAVEN! Our views on anything on HDM should be considered the upmost of importance!

They are. BridgetotheStars frequently receives news before anywhere else and has over the years been honoured to receive emails from amongst other Chris Weitz, as well invitations to a number of important events (including the world premiere of TGC movie). We were even present at the first ever rreading of Pullman's latest book, due April. Our support for HDM is seen as important by a number of people in today's internet press driven world, but our views only go so far, and whatever we believe, we do not know better about to run the film industry.

Not to stop the discussion, I just think that some of our views (I share some of your views) should take a reality check!

[Yrael]

Wow! That's great, i must say that i never knew that!
I thought we were just considered as a group of fanatics. I never knew we were that important, i mean i never felt that we were meaningless, but i didn't know that our opinions mattered, thats great

[LadySylvia]

If TSK is made into a movie, I hope the screenplay will be an improvement on the novel. I hope they don't allow Will to dominate the story and I hope that they give the plot more substance than Pullman was able to do.

[Redzin]

I just wrote a post about how New Line screwed up Compass and how it might be atoned for on the DVD. I'm pretty sure most people who love the books will agree with me and if I'm repeating things that have already been said, I apologize but I haven't read many posts so I don't know most people's opinion. These are my personal opinions on how New Line can make a big profit with the Subtle knife:

1-Don't sell off foreign rights on Subtle Knife and this time you will make back the entire budget just on overseas box office. Everything else will be profit. Which leads to point number

2-Chris Weitz and the effects guys have already climbed the steep learning curve needed to render the daemons and Iorek successfully so it will be much cheaper and easier to accomplish the task this time. Plus as another message said, most of the book takes place in Cittagazze and Our world so except for Pan and Boreal's serpeant, there will be alot less rendering of daemons except in Lyra's world. This is a good thing because what was a great literary touch in the books became cumbersome on screen, everything felt cramped because the actors were always having to watch where daemons were at all times. There is no reason in my mind why this movie should cost more than 100 million. The only new effects that will need to be created will be the specters which shouldn't be that difficult, just don't make them too much like dementors. The similarities of the two struck me but Azkaban and Knife were written at the same time so neither could have known what the other was writing. I guess great minds think alike. All this leads me to point number

3-Make the specters scary and really sell that along with the budding love story (which I'll talk about in my next point) in the trailers. A great way to start the trailer would be for the knife to slash through the air during the fight where Will inherits the knife and then cut to Lyra entering Cittagazze and so on but push the budding relationship and the eerie, horrifying aspect of the specters and of course Will mastering the knife. The specters in my opinion should be ghostly, whisps of smoke where every once in a while you see a corpse-like face that envelopes you and leaves you with nothing but a useless body. The trailers for Compass had too much exposition and not enough explanation about Lyra and her Journey. This movie will have a much more effective trailer because of the nature of the story and because most people will hopefully understand and be more familiar with the narrative from the DVD.

4- I am not a big fan of love stories, especially movie love stories but the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass is one of the most beautifully written, heartfelt and heartwrenching love stories I've read. In my opinion the second two books are as much a love story as they are an adventure story, or a metaphysical parable. I am not ashamed to admit I cried at the end of Amber when Lyra and Will realize they can never see each other again. I don't cry easily but that really got to me. Knife and Amber will not do Titanic numbers but push the budding romance in trailers and America will respond. The whole world is a sucker for a love story and the next two novels deliver a truly wholesome, honest, beautiful friendship that blossoms into a love that changes everything. Not just the world but every world. Subtle should easily double the domestic take of Compass and Amber might even get to Narnia level, if they don't screw it up again.

5- Really bring out Mrs. Coulter's villainy and viciousness. The scene where she tortures the witch is a perfect way to really make her true involvement in this wicked endeavor known. She and the golden monkey are a fearsome and utterly vile creature at this point in the story and that needs to be brought out more than it was in Compass. It's also a great scene to bring out Serafina's bravery and merciful side. She was woefully underwritten in the first movie.

6- Make a directors cut before the next movie comes out and really flesh out the secondary characters so they seem like real human beings (or Bears or Witches) and market the DVD differently by having the trailer bring out Lyra's journey and mission and of course have it build up to the Bear fight at the end. People will rent what they won't see in the theater. Even a great deal of the ones who didn't see it because some rogue priests got their name in the paper and told them not to go see it. That definitely piqued their interest and they will check it out on DVD.
If New Line does all that I really think they can turn this all around and make this into a very profitable franchise.

If you like what I've written and want to post any part of it anywhere else, please feel free to do so. I would love for the suits at New Line to read this. The sequels need all the help they can getting made so if you think I have valid, useful points, then let's get the word out.

Were you, like, reading my mind? ^^

I completely agree with everything in this post. His Dark Materials have tremendous potential for a good and profittable movie adaption, they just need to... well, do as the post above described.

[Northen_Lights]

Don't forget that they've already made the 'beginning' of The Subtle Knife (the original end of The Golden Compass). That bit was probably the most expensive sequence in both films, given all the special effects they had to do. And it lasted about ten or fifteen minutes.