LO: So I bought Lyra's Oxford the other day...

[marlboro_tentacles]

It's OK. Wish more could have been made of it, though, nice story, simple little narrative, showcasing the trademark Pullman charm.

It's certinaly pretty to look at. Nice red hardback with the text embossed in the old London Undergound style font which greatly contributes to a sense of Englishness. The map, the postcard and all the non digetic stuff is good, just wish there could have been more of it.

Hate to mention Radiohead again, but it sure as hell did remind me of the special editions of their last two albums which appeared in a book format and a roadmap respectively. An influence on Pullman, or is it just an Oxonian thing?

At £10 a go, it's tempting to point the finger; you'd be forgiven for smelling green when you open the pages. If you haven't bought it yet, wait until your local library gets a copy, or borrow it from a friend. This is good, but not £10 good.

Ho hum.

[eloquent]

Don't pay £10 for it, pay £6.99 (and help out btts in the process ).

[The Unsettled One]

couldn't wait, bought it for a tenner

[marlboro_tentacles]

Too late, sorry. I will be placing an order for a Will T-Shirt soon as my credit card is clear at the end of the month.

And yes, this is the official Will BTTS shirt, and NOT THE WILL FAN CLUB one before you get any ideas.

[The Unsettled One]

Sorry the idea has already fixed itself to the back of my mind, you'll have to brainwash me.

[Enitharmon]

The map, the postcard and all the non digetic stuff is good, just wish there could have been more of it.

You must have noticed that there's something distinctly rum about the postcard? I know the postcard itself is contrived but that's not what I mean. The space left where the stamp was is the wrong size for a British stamp. The postmark isn't a Royal Mail one - it looks more like an American one but I can't be specific - and has the cryptic .W BRITAIN on it. It's addressed to 'Lancaster England' but nobody would use England posting within England. It should have 'Lancaster' and a postcode, or possibly 'Lancaster Lancashire' or 'Lancaster Lancs'.

[The Unsettled One]

It's so the yanks no what were on about, no offence to any yanks.

[Lalura]

Perhaps Mary and Will had to run away to another country so they wouldn't be found by the police. That's why the stamp was removed.

[The Unsettled One]

You can never know, unless of course you interrogate PP for all the info he didn't say.
OR you could just ask him nicely, but that hardly works.

[Lalura]

That's all well and good, but I like not knowing.

[Enitharmon]

Perhaps Mary and Will had to run away to another country so they wouldn't be found by the police. That's why the stamp was removed.

I suppose they might. But that's not when the card was sent - it was sent just after Mary had left her order and gone to work at the Clarendon...

Another hobby horse. I can't believe Mary and Will would run away. Apart from anything else, running away would go against everything they've learned. Mary has undertaken to bring Will and his mother back together again. Will may have convinced himself that he's killed somebody but actually he hasn't. Besides, the death was of one of two intruders in Will's house in the small hours of the morning. No charge would ever stand up in the circumstances. And besides, Will is already resigned to the consequences. As he points out, he's confronted far worse!

[marlboro_tentacles]

Did anyone notice the book published by Mrs. Coulter on the back of the map? And the book entitled 'Prisoner of the Bears'. There's some little nuggets hidden in there for the eagle eyed.

[Enitharmon]

Did anyone notice the book published by Mrs. Coulter on the back of the map? And the book entitled 'Prisoner of the Bears'. There's some little nuggets hidden in there for the eagle eyed.

And Some Curious Anomalies in the Mathematics of Palladio's Quattro Libri by Nicholas Outram (PP's middle names) - which is a double nugget as Palladio's Quattro Libri was an influential treatise on architecture in our world.

This is a good one too - Polymathestatos: A Festschrift in honour of Joscelyn Godwin ed. by Athanasius Kircher. (Hint: Have a look at Godwin's publications on the link)

This subject has been given a bit of a working over on the full site but hasn't been completed, I think. Who says LO is trivial? I certainly don't!

[marlboro_tentacles]

"Hermetic Philosopher and Surveyor of Two Worlds" He's also an Oxonite.

Trivial? Do you remember the discussion we were having about Tarantino? Could Lyra's Oxford be Pullman's Kill Bill? I mean, the references are all well and good, but if you're not well-read enough to spot them... it all depends on 'cultural competence'.

A loaded term, I know, but all the same, it might be a bad thing. For instance, my younger brother who is 13, and likes HDM will not get most of the references.

I still think more could have been made of the story, just on the descriptive side, because you don't get a lot of value for money words-per-pounds wise.

[Enitharmon]

Trivial? Do you remember the discussion we were having about Tarantino? Could Lyra's Oxford be Pullman's Kill Bill? I mean, the references are all well and good, but if you're not well-read enough to spot them... it all depends on 'cultural competence'.

I didn't know anything about Joscelyn Godwin or Athanasius Kircher until I looked them up on Google. All these things are there for anybody with the curiosity to follow them up, and if you have access to this site then you have access to Google. Google makes it a lot easier and more accessible - some might argue that it's less satisfying but that's neither here nor there.

Curiosity, after all, is part of the building of the Republic. It's those who want to be spoon-fed all the time that try vmy patience, I'm afraid. Finding out through your own efforts is so much more rewarding.

[Will]

Too late, sorry. I will be placing an order for a Will T-Shirt soon as my credit card is clear at the end of the month.

And yes, this is the official Will BTTS shirt, and NOT THE WILL FAN CLUB one before you get any ideas.

~*dugong*~. I thought I'd pulled my first bloke.

[Lillie Frog]

You must have noticed that there's something distinctly rum about the postcard? I know the postcard itself is contrived but that's not what I mean. The space left where the stamp was is the wrong size for a British stamp. The postmark isn't a Royal Mail one - it looks more like an American one but I can't be specific - and has the cryptic .W BRITAIN on it. It's addressed to 'Lancaster England' but nobody would use England posting within England. It should have 'Lancaster' and a postcode, or possibly 'Lancaster Lancashire' or 'Lancaster Lancs'.

Yes, you are so right. The post mark and the address are not right. And also it says in the book that these things have slipped through to our dimension, but as some one has said somewhere, how can the post card slip through from our world to our world?
There is one explanation for this that I can think of, and that is that Will and Mary's world is not our world. It is very similar of course but not the same, as shown by different post mark/address conventions. This theory would also be indicted by the fact that if you checked the records you would find that a Will Parry never lived where he is said too in the book and that an ex-nun named Mary never worked where the books say she worked, etc.
Of course, usually that would just be put down to the conventions of fiction writing, (e.g. Just because Bridget Jones dos'nt really exist, dos'nt mean that the book is set in a parrallel universe.) However HDM is a book about alternative, parallel worlds and it passed through my mind that the
annomalies on the post card might be a clue that all was not as it may have seemed at first.
Well, it's just a theory feel free to tell me that I've lost it.
By the way, I have never done a quote before so maybe I havn't done it right or it's too long or whatever but I really wanted to follow up on what Enitharmon said.

[Enitharmon]

This theory would also be indicted by the fact that if you checked the records you would find that a Will Parry never lived where he is said too in the book and that an ex-nun named Mary never worked where the books say she worked, etc.
Of course, usually that would just be put down to the conventions of fiction writing, (e.g. Just because Bridget Jones dos'nt really exist, dos'nt mean that the book is set in a parrallel universe.) However HDM is a book about alternative, parallel worlds and it passed through my mind that the annomalies on the post card might be a clue that all was not as it may have seemed at first.
Well, it's just a theory feel free to tell me that I've lost it.

No, I don't think you have lost it, and you have grasped a concept that not everybody does find easy - that the 'universe' in which any fiction takes place is never 'our' universe, it is one created by the interaction of the minds of the author and the reader. (I trod very carefully in phrasing that, because that universe is created afresh for every individual reader, who will interpret it differently from any other reader).

So, in a sense you are right. But for me at least there's still something very odd about that postcard and it's bothering me. Although the universe which contained a boy called Will and an ex-nun called Mary isn't 'our' universe, it is necessarily an important part of the way HDM works that one particular universe is dressed up to resemble the one we know and recognise as far as possible. Then it becomes a reference frame for all the other universes; a place to which we as readers can return to get our bearings. Without it, the story would lose an awful lot of it's 'wow' power and just become another 'fantasy' adventure.

[Lillie Frog]

The post card bothers me too, it has since I read the book, (Xmas). Its not right, the address is wierd but that coud be put down to Mary just writing it peculiarly, perhaps because she was just out of the convent, (she's lucky to have escaped, once religion gets its claws into you it dont like to let go). The postmark however cannot be explained so easily. In fact its just wrong. 'W BRITAIN'. Nothing posted in our Oxford should have that on it, therefore it cannot have been posted in 'our' Oxford. At least that is what I've been thinking.
In fact, Enitharmon, your posting about the postcard was one of the reasons I joined the message board, because I was so glad I was'nt the only one bothered by it.
The shape of the stamp space is odd too but I suppose it could have been one of those picture stamps that are an odd shape or size.
I tried to look up post marks on the internet but I could'nt find anything useful.
Perhaps I'm making too much of such a little thing, but in Lyras Oxford there are lots of tiny references such as the book list, and my mind keeps coming back to that post mark. I just can't see any reason for it to be like that unless there is a purpose for it. I don't like to believe that it could just be wrong because then Pullman would have had to create a whole new post mark when it would have been much easier to have used a real one.

[Tomsy]

wierd

*Prepares for fall out*