M: Female Circumcision in TGC

[Will]

I was alerted to this palaver by this excellent blog post about the recent controversy over the film. Asides from the Snopes email going around, there seem to be other, less salubrious ones being sent. Including such lovely passages as:

If you decide that you do not want to support something like this, I suggest that you boycott the movie and the books. I googled a synopsis of THE GOLDEN COMPASS. As I skimmed it, I couldn’t believe that in a children’s book part of the story is about castration and female circumcision.

Now, if you google "female circumcision golden compass" .. you get pages of people freaking out about this.

"But just to give you a snippet of what is in Pullman’s books: an ex-nun calling Christianity a convincing mistake, two characters representing Adam & Eve kill God (called YAHWEH) in the end, and there’s a story about castration & female circumcision."

"If you Google the synopsis of the book version you will read such topic as castration and female circumcision. Whether these concepts enter the movie series I don't know, but why would you want to take your kids to learn something like that."

So where have they got this idea from? The Sparknotes summary apparently:

Lyra [the protagonist]’s discovery of Tony Makarios helps her to understand that the Gobblers are cutting children’s daemons[2] away from them in a procedure they call Intercision. Intercision is like castration, in which a young boy’s testicles are cut off so that he never reaches male maturity. Intercision also recalls female circumcision, in which a girl’s clitoris is removed so that she cannot experience the full intensity of sexual pleasure. Both castration and female circumcision are religious in origin. Both practices respond to a religious demand that some natural part of a person be removed in order to prevent sexual pleasure. Intercision is also religious and anti-sexual. It is performed by the General Oblation Board, which is a branch of the Church in Lyra’s world, and it is intended to prevent the onset of “upsetting emotions” and allow children to grow up without ever feeling passion. Lyra knows Intercision is wrong, although she isn’t exactly sure why it’s wrong. For Pullman, sexual experience is an essential part of becoming a full-grown human, despite the confusion and pain it can cause.

What utterly facile and horrible people these are.

[jessia]

big jump. i think it's an interesting and valid interpretation but to say "TGC is about male and female circumcision," is not an accurate for paragraph's summary.

[Mogget]

Sounds like someone isn't paying attention to the story, and mucking things up horribly as a result. You want to read about sexuality, read the last 5 chapters of TAS. Intercision is not about sexual repression, it's about the cutting away of souls to prevent "Original Sin." The whole "oblate-castrato" thing was a useful metaphor on the part of Lord Asriel, and it helps him get his main point across. Just goes to show that people will believe anything about a story. Sad that such a ludicrous analysis actually gained weight.

[jessia]

Intercision is not about sexual repression, it's about the cutting away of souls to prevent "Original Sin." The whole "oblate-castrato" thing was a useful metaphor on the part of Lord Asriel, and it helps him get his main point across.

but isn't it a little bit? intercision is meant to prevent the settling of a daemon and the initiation of puberty, most physically marked by sexual maturation. this has to do with sexual awareness. and so this can be interpreted to do with the "sex as bad" idea that pullman takes issue with.

however female circumcision/genital cutting/mutilation is a really broadly explained practise, and has to do a lot of things that do and don't have to do with sexual pleasure. but this practise also mostly takes place before the onset of puberty and it's understandable that it could be related to the practise of intercision.

Just goes to show that people will believe anything about a story. Sad that such a ludicrous analysis actually gained weight.

it's ludicrous that people should think this is the main thrust of hdm but i think that sort of interpretation would be useful in perhaps looking at how the l-world's church might appear to people like lord asriel.

still, i agree that the whole google search results thing is utter bananas. but are they saying that children shouldn't know that female genital mutilation exists? ('cause if it's going to be read that way in the books, it's obviously portrayed as bad) that's like saying... kids shouldn't be exposed to the fact that people experience suffering and violence, or that sexual assault doesn't exist.

[Mogget]

Intercision is not about sexual repression, it's about the cutting away of souls to prevent "Original Sin." The whole "oblate-castrato" thing was a useful metaphor on the part of Lord Asriel, and it helps him get his main point across.

but isn't it a little bit? intercision is meant to prevent the settling of a dæmon and the initiation of puberty, most physically marked by sexual maturation. this has to do with sexual awareness. and so this can be interpreted to do with the "sex as bad" idea that pullman takes issue with.

If you look at it in that way, then yes, it's an interesting point of view from which one can approach the story, and could lead to some new insights into it. That's not what I was talking about, though. I was saying that some people seem to think that this connection between female circumcision and Intercision is somehow a main plot point or theme, which is ridiculous.

[Will]

Intercision is a pretty major theme of the book - the central message of HDM is basically that it's okay to grow up, and that attempts to stop children from doing so - be they physical or mental - are wrong.

But yeah, it's the huge leap from circumcision being tangentially related to an aspect of the books (and in an unapproving way) to "look out, TGC has female circumcision in it!!" that's nasty. eg elsewhere:

I was told the new movie golden compass was a kids movie and it had female circumcision in it… hence the google and ending up here… not some disgusting desire to see it…. I just want to make sure I know the truth about this crap… I have kids…. and I would be pissed if they saw that!

[Mogget]

I never said that Intercision wasn't important, I said that the connection between it and female circumcision (if there is one) isn't.

[Will]

I think it's a fairly large part of it. One of the witches (I forget whom) equates Bolvangar (and its Intercision) to what goes on elsewhere, with a strong "this happens in our world too, and it's called circumcision" vibe from PP :

“You know only the north; I have traveled in the south lands. There are churches there, believe me, that cut their children too, as the people of B. did - not in the same way, but just as horribly. They cut their sexual organs, yes, both boys and girls; they cut them with knives so that they shan’t feel. That is what the church does, and every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling…”

[Synesthesia]

Augh! Where in heck's bells do people get these ridiculous notions?

[jessia]

I think it's a fairly large part of it. One of the witches (I forget whom) equates Bolvangar (and its Intercision) to what goes on elsewhere, with a strong "this happens in our world too, and it's called circumcision" vibe from PP :

“You know only the north; I have traveled in the south lands. There are churches there, believe me, that cut their children too, as the people of B. did - not in the same way, but just as horribly. They cut their sexual organs, yes, both boys and girls; they cut them with knives so that they shan’t feel. That is what the church does, and every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling…”

'tis ruta skaadi, who goes to talk to other witches. i'd forgotten about those direct references to female genital mutilation... but there it is.

[Grumman]

I honestly didn't remember this, or most probably didn't ever gave much attention to it. I do remember that somewhere in the books, the case of the castrati (choir children who were castrated so their voice wouldn't change with age) is mentioned. Of course we know the context of this is to expose the atrocities committed in the name of religion. So is witch burning.

So what I'd answer to these people is that yes, these practices are denounced in the books.

[Enitharmon]

Leaving aside the silliness of the viral campaign, there is more than an element of truth in intercision as a metaphor for castration/female circumcision. After all, in the 'real' world we don't have dæmons to be intercised so there's nothing to worry about, but when we first learned about what happened to Tony Makarios we all shuddered - male and female alike - go on, I defy you to deny it! It's one of the wonderful moments of the narrative that makes it special (and more than just a stonking adventure yarn)

It's not just that Asriel explicitly makes the comparison with castration. It's that castration and circumcision are generally religious rituals carried out with the intention of removing pleasure from sex. The association of sex with guilt is one of the overarching themes of HDM - it comes from Blake, and it bears repeating yet again that HDM isn't just a rehash of Paradise Lost, it owes just as much to Blake and his philosophy of Free Love.

[tyche]

Are these people serious? I guess i see the connection between intercision and circumcision but its not like the whole book is about female circumsision.
Actually even if it was would it be that offense? It isn't pro circumcision. No one complained about all the eunich jokes in Pirates of the Caribbean.

[Blossom]

I'd never heard of female circumcision before this, it sounds painful, and a little pointless since the female will still have her G-spot which they'll never find...

Anyway, intercision obviously is a metaphoric castration, it's just a shame these people have seen 'female castration' and taken it so literally. It's not even as if the film condones it, it's against it.

[Jez]

I wish these people would do a little research before spouting such crap. Intercision is compared to female circumcision/castration all of twice if I remember correctly. It gets a passing mention and it is clearly portrayed as bad. I wonder if the protesters would get even more angry if they realised that it's the Church in the books performing these horrible practices...

[jessia]

I'd never heard of female circumcision before this, it sounds painful, and a little pointless since the female will still have her G-spot which they'll never find...

i don't think all women experience the same orgasm in the same places. also, in the places where female genital mutilation is practised, sterile environments for what is really a surgical procedure is always available. there are high rate of infection which can seriously screw up your entire system, i.e. including other parts. also, not all advocation for the practise necessarily (but really..) has to do with pleasure. but yea... terrible practice. although it shouldn't be a staying point of hdm, it works as an excellent analogy for intercission (for anyone who's ever heard a testimony of female genital mutilation). i think more people should be aware of it. this whole "don't expose your children to the evils of the world thing" is silly.

[Blossom]

I'd never heard of female circumcision before this, it sounds painful, and a little pointless since the female will still have her G-spot which they'll never find...

i don't think all women experience the same orgasm in the same places.

It's not about orgasm though, you don't have to orgasm for sex to feel good. My point was that even with out a clit (which half the time doesn't get stimulated during sex anyway) you're still going to enjoy sex, so not having a clit doesn't remove the guilty pleasure at all.

[benja-man]

I'd never heard of female circumcision before this, it sounds painful, and a little pointless since the female will still have her G-spot which they'll never find...

i don't think all women experience the same orgasm in the same places.

It's not about orgasm though, you don't have to orgasm for sex to feel good. My point was that even with out a clit (which half the time doesn't get stimulated during sex anyway) you're still going to enjoy sex, so not having a clit doesn't remove the guilty pleasure at all.

Please can we quickly agree upon the fact that female circumcision is such a horrible horrible act of violence! Your arguments sound like you want to play down the gravity of the practice.

[Blossom]

Eh? No, I wasn't saying anything like that at all. All I was saying is that I was puzzled by the practise because it seems pretty pointless, not that it wasn't horrible (which it is).

[jessia]

My point was that even with out a clit (which half the time doesn't get stimulated during sex anyway) you're still going to enjoy sex, so not having a clit doesn't remove the guilty pleasure at all.

aah okay. but as i continued onto say. it's a broad practise that isn't the same internationally. in different places they cut different things and the fact of unsterile instruments and infection usually ~*iguana*~ up a lot of parts that those instruments didn't purposefully cut. a lot of women who underwent genital mutilation have not just unpleasurable sex, but painful sex, and later painful childbirth.