Asriel & Coulter's relationship

[Salem]

Or does one love the other more? Are they capable of real love?

[jessia]

i voted yes, but it'd still be a very weak love (they both had other lovers anyways) if it hadn't been for the very end, that they had a common cause to protect their daughter's life. the only thing that brought them together in the first place (other than fate, to bring about lyra) was mrs. coulter's beauty and lord asriel's power. after lyra was born, neither of them really wanted to deal with caring for her. it was only at the very end, that they really really shared something, 'cause they died together protecting their daughter's love.

[Daniel]

I think they did in the end, but probably not before.

[Carina]

yeah, before the end I think it was mostly physical attraction and obsession with power that brought them together

[eloquent]

I think they did love each other all the time... It's just that it was superceeded by other things as their lives moved in different directions (Coulter into her church career and persuit of power; Asriel toward furthering his revolutionary plans). Asriel was very bitter about Coulter, but love and hate are by no means mutually exclusive emotions. They still loved each other underneath it all, and this was realised in the 'embracing' scene at the end of NL, then again (perhaps more profoundly) when they killed metatron to save their daughter. Their love may not have been as strong or deep as Will and Lyra's, and it may have been long dormant, but I thought it was still there, underneath it all.

[viper]

yes i think they always did love deep down.

[Blossom]

i think they loved each other too. but were to concerned with their reputation to admit it.

[Rose of Sharon]

I believe in soul mates, and I think Coulter and Asriel were a true match -- that is, they always loved each other deep down, but never knew it, always believing their attraction was strictly physical. By the end, though, they realized that they did really love each other.

[TheLadyofShalott]

I agree that they were definately a pair, but I wouldn't use "love" to describe their relationship, since they didn't seem to actually CARE about each other, and that's a big part of love. They would have saved themselves before each other, it seemed, even though they both sacrified their lives for their daughter. They slept around, DEFINATELY chose career over their relationship. So I'd say the closest the love they got was partership and sexual attraction.

[Dess]

I think they were too greedy to really love each other, and, by 'greedy' I don't mean for money or power, I mean greedy even when love was concerned. Instead of wanting to love the other, they wanted to be loved by the other. You know... more lusty than anything.

At the end, though... I think they did. When they both realized what they had to do for Lyra, it somehow brought them together.

[TheLadyofShalott]

I think they were too greedy to really love each other, and, by 'greedy' I don't mean for money or power, I mean greedy even when love was concerned. Instead of wanting to love the other, they wanted to be loved by the other. You know... more lusty than anything.

*nods* well said. That's kinda what I was trying to say.

[Annie3247]

course they truely loved each other! i mean they were the most prideful people i've ever read about, but still it was obvious they truely loved each other, and learned to love lyra in the end. i mean to ya'll remember the end of the golden compass? well...ok bad example because she left because of her pride, but her tears were true! and her and asriel didn't waste anytime in running to each other to hug, kiss, caress, u knwo all that good stuff. also in the end of the amber spyglass, they pushed away their pride for lyra, and died together. that's the only way they'd be satisfied....(do not ask what some of this means, because i just type and confuse myself at times)

[viper]

i think i agree, i think

[Story]

I think they did truly love each other. Remember love and hate are just 2 sides of the same coin as my nan says...

[pvflaggirl]

I think their love was of the tragic sort. They were in love, but they couldn't be together because their lifestyles were too different. They probably would not have stayed together. They were in love in theory, but not in practice...

[Dess]

One thing I was thinking about... in the Amber Spyglass, Will and Lyra wonder how many other 'lovers' had discovered the same thing with touching each other's dæmons... like it was touching that sacred part of their spirit where true love is found, and Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter always take care never to touch each other's dæmons.

So, again, I say that they loved eachother in a lusty, greedy sort of way, but it wasn't anything like 'true love'.

[Daniel]

That's a good point, although I think that people can truly fall in love just fine without touching each other's d�mons. Otherwise, would people in our world be just doing it subconsciously sometimes, or would they never have that kind of love?

[Dess]

subconsciously, definetly.

[Annie235]

Hi, I've just joined! I voted yes because I think LA loved MC although I'm not so sure she loved him as much. Not sure she loved anyone other than herself, and towards the end, Lyra. I think LA is a very proud man and resented MC so much because he was angry at himself for still loving her after she washed her hands of him when he killed her husband. The fact I loved LA and not MC has no bearing on my judgement though!

Hope it's OK to just start posting!

best wishes
Annie

[Dess]

Hi Annie, and welcome to the boards! ^_^

LA kinda washed his hands of her at the end of TGC when they parted because she wouldn't go with him. He turned away and didn't look back even for a minute. And her d�mon, her soul, longed to follow him, but she couldn't.
And what about Ruda Skadi (or whatever her name was), the witch who also loved LA, and I think he loved her too. They both had many, many lovers... they just happened to have a kid together.