Parallels between HDM and Narnia (*Spoilers for both*)

[juri]

Hi, new If there are already threads on this, a THOUSAND APOLOGIES I did look!

I was talking to my friend about parallels between HDM and Narnia but she couldn't care less...bah *turns to internet forums*

I know about how Pullman is fiercely opposed to the Narnia books, and everything they stand for, but I was thinking about the imagery he deliberately borrowed, even if the themes are completely different, drawing more attention to the differences *hopes she's making sense*

(I'm sorry if I'm talking about stuff that has been covered many times)
(spoilers for everything)

For example, the way HDM starts with Lyra hiding in a wardrobe because of curiosity, which leads to events that will spark her discovery of other worlds, and her journey North, with the snow, and she uses the coats in the cupboard to rest on.

In the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, Lucy hides in a wardrobe (as part of a game) and uses the fur coats to step out into a snow covered world which starts her journey.

Just using the same 'props', young girl, wardrobe, fur coats, snow, but having the whole meaning, personality and intention be different.

So I thought if Lyra parallels Lucy, (a stronger, more independant version of her) then are there any other characters that parallel anyone..

Mrs Coulter is the White Witch. In the Narnia books, the beautiful White Witch approaches Edmund in the cold and tempts him away to her castle (for sinister purposes) promising hot chocolate and turkish delight.
In HDM, the beautiful Mrs Coulter tempts away Tony Makarios, pretending to be kind, offering hot chocolatl.
However, Tony dies horribly as a result of his foolishness, and Edmund is unscathed.
The White Witch is determined to kill the 'sons of Adam and daughters of Eve' which reminds me of the moment Mrs Coulter found out Lyra was 'Eve' and needed to be destroyed.
I'm not sure what I'm saying here, I just really want to know if other people have noticed these things? it is intentional on Pullman's part or am I just seeing things from having read both books too much.

'Aslan' is the exact opposite of the 'Authority', Aslan is 'godly' he is strong, he protects, takes action, he's a god that everyone can see. The Authority is secretive - and completely pathetic and usless.

Um, I can't see any others. Will does not parallel anyone from Narnia, neither do Lord Asriel or Iorek.
Lyra becomes more like Susan in the later books, she forgets how to read the alethiomer, the way Susan 'forgets' Narnia, it's about growing up, using innocence and childish belief. But for Lyra it is portrayed positively- it is right to grow up, you gain more than you lose. But for Susan, it is in a negative light - forgetting Narnia, how awful!

'The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe' is very anti-pagan, the witches of HDM could parallel the White Witch as well as Mrs Coulter. In HDM they are peaceful and beautifully portrayed being in tune with nature and the earth, but in Narnia, witches are evil.

(This part turned a bit into a personal review of the last book)

In the last of the Narnia books, (personally) for the first time I saw it become ridiculous, I could see all the religious propaganda many other reviewers talked about (I did not think the previous books were that bad!) Aslan literally collects up all the people and creatures loyal to him, and takes them to heaven. The old Narnia is destroyed-- all the non Aslan followers with it.
In HDM all dead people have the exact same fate, there is no heaven or hell, whether you believe in a God or not, when people die, they are all exactly the same.
Aslan opens a 'door' in Narnia to let people out of their old world, to a better one, they have to keep moving, higher, higher to find somewhere better. In HDM the whole idea is that where you ARE is important, live for now, build heaven where you are, don't go searching for it!
Back to Narnia, Susan is the only ('good') main character absent, she lost belief in Narnia (in Aslan, in God) she 'grew up' and had her own independant ideas, so she can never reach Narnia. I found it so sad her entire family were there, but not her. The moment they all realise they were killed in a train crash was CHILLING, it was a shocking moment, much like the realisation of the end of the Sixth Sense. However the characters all react joyfully and thankfully to being dead. Oh thankyou God for letting us die and live in heaven. In HDM the dead people cling to the vaguest memories of even being alive.

Thankyou for reading all that, if you did, I'm not great with essay writing and making myself clear.

[Soapy]

You're right this has been discussed before somewhere I'm sure but all the same I thought those observations were good, especially about Mrs Coulter. It's amazing how after years of HDM I can still see something new (granted I only just read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe).

Anyway, you're completely right. There are massive parallels between the two books. Lyra in the cupboard is the most obvious and probably the most offensive to Christian-Narnia fanatics, but yer.

Personally, I think Pullman sat down one day and decided he was going to write a book that would be the Anti-Narnia. Whether he did that consciously or not I do not know and I doubt he'd ever admit it but I'm sure it's in his brain somewhere.

PS why don't you introduce yourself?

[Leif]

Wow, Juri, those were some very good points! Like Sophie said, I can't believe I didn't notice the parallels between the White Witch and Mrs. Coulter...

Good analysis Juri, and welcome to the site.

[manda]

Ditto. That's all that needs to be said.

[Enitharmon]

To be fair, both Lewis and Pullman drew on story structures far older than either of them - such fabulae as the Grimms collected. Think of Snow White!

I have a theory articulated elsewhere that PP deliberately worked in references to lots of Oxford-based writers. Lyra begins her adventure in a wardrobe (C S Lewis); Will begins his by following an animal through a hole (Lewis Carroll); The housekeeper at Jordan College is called Mrs Lonsdale (Colin Dexter, whose fictional Oxford college is called Lonsdale); a blade is broken and reforged (Tolkien); probably lots of others.

[Jamie]

I have a theory articulated elsewhere that PP deliberately worked in references to lots of Oxford-based writers. Lyra begins her adventure in a wardrobe (C S Lewis); Will begins his by following an animal through a hole (Lewis Carroll); The housekeeper at Jordan College is called Mrs Lonsdale (Colin Dexter, whose fictional Oxford college is called Lonsdale); a blade is broken and reforged (Tolkien); probably lots of others.

That's very impressive. It seems obvious now, Will going through a window in to his 'Wonderland'. I'm pants at this kind of thing generally though..

[Enitharmon]

That's very impressive. It seems obvious now, Will going through a window in to his 'Wonderland'. I'm pants at this kind of thing generally though..

Not to mention that the pawprints of Richard Dawkins are all over the mulefa sections.

[juri]

To be fair, both Lewis and Pullman drew on story structures far older than either of them - such fabulae as the Grimms collected. Think of Snow White!

I have a theory articulated elsewhere that PP deliberately worked in references to lots of Oxford-based writers. Lyra begins her adventure in a wardrobe (C S Lewis); Will begins his by following an animal through a hole (Lewis Carroll); The housekeeper at Jordan College is called Mrs Lonsdale (Colin Dexter, whose fictional Oxford college is called Lonsdale); a blade is broken and reforged (Tolkien); probably lots of others.

They definitely drew on older sources, especially all the direct greek mythology in Amber Spyglass.
But I didn't even think about Alice in Wonderland or Lord of the Rings... ooh. *Searches around for your theory*
...if I don't come back in a day I was eaten by wolves and couldn't find it, so could you provide a link -_-

[Jez]

I started writing a reply to this yesterday, but my Internet connection failed for no apparent reason... So, I agree with everyone else.

Oh yeah, I remember what I was going to say. It struck me that all these parallels, whether subconscious or deliberate on Pullman's part, do seem to weaken Pullman's argument against the Narnia books. After all, he accuses them of being Christian propaganda, but since in HDM he basically flips everything on its head, he could just as easily be accused of writing atheist propaganda.

Aren't there supposed to be only so many types of story you can tell, so every book fits into one of them? I guess both Narnia and HDM would fit into the quest type?

[Symon]

Wow. Juri should write my "comparison/contrast essay".

[kyrabelacqua]

As HDM will most probably become more popular upon the release of the movies, I betcha we'll see hundreds of newspaper articles drawing the same comparisons, and rubbishing PP's work even more.

And the sad thing is that I will feel the need to defend him... again.

[StellaMaria]

Very cool to see the parallels you all have arrived at. Thanks for sharing them. Far from cheapening PP's work I think it adds richness to it. He is putting forward his (more enlightened) opinion on the same topics, in the same symbolic language, or that is my guess.

MbtE.

[manda]

I am complete ~pineapples~ at this kind of thing, so I am now hitting my self on head for not realising all this obvious stuff. Oh, and I agree with StellaMarie.

[Stargirl]

Yech. I just saw Narnia yesterday. I didn't like it. I didn't see any parallels, I just thought it was all a bit dumb. especially how peter kept holding his flimsy sword straight out and pointing it at people. Yuck. My dad said the books weren't that good either though. but i don't remember them, i read them when i was like, 5.

[Jaya]

I laughed at the way he held his sword.

[Stargirl]

I know!! It was SO stupid looking! And you could see it was a cheapy sword too, it kept like, wobling back and forth! And the part where he's riding into battle bugged me too, becuase he didn't put his visor down till the last possible second, but as my mom said he wouldn't be as cute with it down would he.

well it didn't remind me very much of HDM, but bits of it did remind me of LOTR, the whole way they tried to film it any eveything, with the great battle. BLech.

[Jaya]

I know!! It was SO stupid looking! And you could see it was a cheapy sword too, it kept like, wobBling back and forth!

*cough*cardboard*cough*

[manda]

I kept bursting into laughter everytime he pointed his sword at stuff until this man in front of me tapped my knee... And I find it really unfair that he gets the title, Peter the MAGNIFICENT! Susan was really annoying, too... And the whole movie was imitating LOTR, especially the battle scenes.

[Stargirl]

If some strange man touched y knee I'd punch him. And it was a bit sexist...

[DutchCrunch]

If some strange man touched y knee I'd punch him. And it was a bit sexist...

I'd go with the punching too.

The parallels with Narnia may appear to be a bit stronger than they really are. As people pointed out even C.S. Lewis heavily borrowed from storytellers even older than him. In many ways he retold the bible.
Aslan is very much a Jesus figure, taking the shame, mockery and death in order to protect a lying little brat (much like our well known Jesus took the fall for mankind). The Aslan parallel even goes right to a resurrection.
Also how Lewis had to constantly make the point of Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve made his attempt to retell that story clear enough.

Whereas Pullman, as we all know, attempted to retell in some way or another Paradise Lost. Also an old book, just not as old. His Mulefa are funny enough, but entirely fictional, thus not allowing us to have any previous opinions on them. Unlike Lewis where the fact that everyone was animal except the kids, made the kids more important. In HDM the Mulefa themselves are important. Lewis has a lot of funny talking animals, but he doesn't care about them, they are just needed as contrast to the heroic little Sons of Adam. Pullman's Mulefa are needed to make the serpent.

I guess in someway Pullman, like Milton, took a liking to more daring and bolder Lucifer and either subconciously or conciously decided to tell their part of the deal. Lewis did the same with the bible, but he failed to introduce new themes, even taking some out (say love, respect and all that good stuff). Pullman put some back in, building on Milton, where Lucifer (or Asriel) finds himself unbeatable and in constant need of flattery (whether from a butler or fellow fallen cherubs). My conclusion would be that whilst they may appear similar they are not two sides of the same coin. Maybe they're two coins of the same currency...