How are daemons born?

[mtbanger]

When Lyra or any one else for that matter (in Lyra's world) is born where does the daemon appear or how do they come into being? Just thourght i would ask.

[Max]

I believe there's a quotation direct from the mouth/hands of Pullman, basically saying that he hasn't really considered dæmon gynaecology. Which means it's open to your interpretation; I would suggest that they come into existence in a similar manner to that in which they leave it: they just kinda coalesce from whatever this mysterious dust-like substance Pullman says dæmons are made out of is, at whatever stage in the child's life they become 'conscious' (ie, begin to attract Dust).

[sam]

ARRGGGHHHHH! Isn't there a thread left about a dæmons birth. I have to agree with Max. After a very long discusion on another thread about this I believe that a dæmon comes into being by dust collecting itself into a form. Its just what is the very first form of a dæmon. Is it the same for all people or is their first form unique?

[Max]

ARRGGGHHHHH! Isn't there a thread left about a dæmons birth. I have to agree with Max. After a very long discusion on another thread about this I believe that a dæmon comes into being by dust collecting itself into a form. Its just what is the very first form of a dæmon. Is it the same for all people or is their first form unique?

Ooo, perhaps the initial form is the final form their dæmon will take, and it coalesces in the womb. Then, when the 'experimental theologians' of Lyra's world invent ultrasound, the parents will have to decide whether they want to know the final form of their chilld's dæmon as well as/or the gender.

Because it really matters...

[sam]

I dont think it will be in the womb though. What about peoples deaths, do they just appeare like dæmons or do they apear when the sperm meets the egg, when the baby becomes alive?

[Max]

I dont think it will be in the womb though. What about peoples deaths, do they just appeare like dæmons or do they apear when the sperm meets the egg, when the baby becomes alive?

As soon as the child enters into life, the Death is born. I would say that's when the two gametes fuse, although this is getting into some very abstruse ethics.

[eloquent]

I would suggest that they come into existence in a similar manner to that in which they leave it: they just kinda coalesce from whatever this mysterious dust-like substance Pullman says dæmons are made out of is

'Tis my original theory of about 8 months ago... Where did that old thread get to?

[sam]

Thats what I asked, to many people ask the same question over and over.

[Daniel]

I don't think a dæmon's first form could be its final form, since that would mean that fate and predestination ruled people's lives.

Does anyone remember any specific words in any specific posts in that thread? The search is somewhat broken, but I might be able to track it down another way.

[King Chicken]

I think once the baby comes out, the dæmon and death are born suddenly. The death will remain invisible, but the dæmon will probably begin forming its bond. We need an expert here....

[Tomsy]

Mmmmmm maybe the mother's daemon gives birth to the new daemon and maybe the daemon's first form is that of the mother's daemon, because a mouse giving birth to a cat doesn't really work.

[antiaktiv]

Mmmmmm maybe the mother's dæmon gives birth to the new dæmon and maybe the dæmon's first form is that of the mother's dæmon, because a mouse giving birth to a cat doesn't really work.

but the mother's dæmon is male, that won't work.
i kinda like the idea of the golden monnkey being in that much pain though...

i also don't like the idea that the first form is what it settles as, it just doesn't make sense. rules out any chance for personal growth, and then it wouldn't be a mystery to anyone what their dæmon settles as, their parents could just tell them.

[sam]

Warning the Following Measage Contains a Spoiler Coincidently Pan could have been born a

Spoiler:

pine martin

and also settle as one. When Coulter gave Lyra the sleeping poition PP describes Pans dæmon form to be a

Spoiler:

pine martin

. I always thought that that might infect Pans settled form.

[Okibi n Rookie]

A dæmon isn't born from another dæmon... A person's physical characteristics are determined by gene shuffling from both the parents, sure, but it's not the same way with the child's dæmon, because he or she is not merely a physical extension like an arm or leg... Your soul is something unique to you, and it's not really another soul that gives birth to it. You mold and shape your own self, nature, and personality. (It's true that circumstances might make you feel a certain way at certain times, but I don't believe it effects your true essence.) No one else can "create" your soul, even when you're too young to have complete consciousness.

I've always imagined that the dæmon doesn't have a clear shape until the baby's consciousness fully develops. (The ability to feel, think, and react, that is.) So the dæmon wouldn't appear automatically, but still rather early on, such as around their third month of life... Before then, the baby still has a soul, so maybe the dæmon is just visible as some vague form always nearby.

And the dæmon's first form...? It probably just reflects however the child feels at the moment.

[sam]

Now tell me Okibi, how do you think a persons death is born?

[Okibi n Rookie]

::shrug:: We aren't given much information about deaths to begin with, so anything about them is a lot more speculation than with dæmons... But it seems to me that the death's personality isn't very dependent on their human's - meaning they can act very differently from one another. (Actually, I wonder what it is that determines the way a death acts...) They are sort of like a guardian angel, whereas a dæmon is more the conscience. Plus, every human being is destined to die one day. That's something they can't evade from the very moment they're born. So the death probably appears the instant a child comes from the mother. They might even be slightly visible beforehand - when the baby's still developing in the womb.

I don't think a death is born either. More like "assigned" to their human, but who knows...?

[Quickwinters]

There are two things I'm wondering about:
a) Does a death know how and when their person is going to die? Or is it a bit of a shock to both of them?
b) Who names daemons? I like to think that parents name the daemons of their chiildren. But what if the child is an orphan?
Any ideas? Sam? Okibi?

[antiaktiv]

There are two things I'm wondering about:
a) Does a death know how and when their person is going to die? Or is it a bit of a shock to both of them?
b) Who names dæmons? I like to think that parents name the dæmons of their chiildren. But what if the child is an orphan?
Any ideas? Sam? Okibi?

PP has said that the parents' dæmons together choose the name for the child's dæmon. kinda makes sense, right?

[Okibi n Rookie]

PP has said that the parents' dæmons together choose the name for the child's dæmon. kinda makes sense, right?

Below is something I've said before about dæmon naming, just so I don't have to repeat myself. =P

..Still, there's some of us who don't believe anyone but the child themselves should name their dæmon. Besides, that's the only way it can happen in our world, ya know? I greatly dislike the thought of someone naming MY soul for me.

The child probably rarely talks directly to the parents' dæmons, even in Lyra's world. It seems wrong for them to have the right to name the kid's soul, who will be with them every moment of their life.

What I mean to say is... the dæmon-human relationship is something so personal and sacred, that it seems ludicrous for the name to NOT at first be something personal between the two; something they discovered together, without the name being placed on the dæmon by someone outside their internal bond.

[Tomsy]

Mmmmmm maybe the mother's dæmon gives birth to the new dæmon and maybe the dæmon's first form is that of the mother's dæmon, because a mouse giving birth to a cat doesn't really work.

but the mother's dæmon is male, that won't work.

Alright, scratch that, what about the father's daemon?