The Republic of Heaven

In the last few pages of Contact by Carl Sagan, the protagonist, Eleanor Arroway, introduces the term "experimental theology." After being a life-time agnostic she is trying to find some hidden message in the number pi:

This new project of her was in experimental theology. But so is all of science, she thought.

Since Carl Sagan wrote this in 1985, I wonder if Philip Pullman got the idea from him. I wouldn’t doubt that Carl Sagan may have got the idea from someone else either.

Technically all Experimental Theology means is experimenting with the study of religion, so Pullman might have invented the term independently. Of course in L-world it means something completely different.

moonflash wrote:Technically all Experimental Theology means is experimenting with the study of religion, so Pullman might have invented the term independently. Of course in L-world it means something completely different.

Actually the interesting thing is that in L-world experimental theology has precisely the meaning that Sagan is giving it; the study of science.

It is fascinating the spin that PP puts on the science/religion tussle in the trilogy - the philosophical instruments - the narrow uses and many rules - the worshipful veneration.

In our universe, for many centuries, all science had to be explained within such theological parameters, and those who deviated from the party line were labeled heretics and burned - or imprisoned like Galileo and tortured.

We are, of course so much more civilized now. The Scientific Community now judges scientists and their theories. And, rather than burning heretics, they only destroy the professional standing and funding of those who do not follow the party line...

Ah, pure science, free of puritanical gods and priests!

Grumman wrote:In the last few pages of Contact by Carl Sagan, the protagonist, Eleanor Arroway, introduces the term "experimental theology." After being a life-time agnostic she is trying to find some hidden message in the number pi:

Well yes - if you express the full decimal expansion in binary and then convert it to ANSI, then you'll find the whole of the Bible, the Quran, the Upanishads and the Laws of Cricket embedded in it. Somewhere.

And most probably something about Da Vinci, crafty bugger that he is and all.

glee wrote:It is fascinating the spin that PP puts on the science/religion tussle in the trilogy - the philosophical instruments - the narrow uses and many rules - the worshipful veneration.

In our universe, for many centuries, all science had to be explained within such theological parameters, and those who deviated from the party line were labeled heretics and burned - or imprisoned like Galileo and tortured.

We are, of course so much more civilized now. The Scientific Community now judges scientists and their theories. And, rather than burning heretics, they only destroy the professional standing and funding of those who do not follow the party line...

Ah, pure science, free of puritanical gods and priests!

Unfortunately I have to agree. I have friends both on the side of "mainstream" and "non-mainstream" cosmology, and I see that all the time. I joke with them that there are only "mainstream" and "non-mainstream" crackpots.

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Enitharmon wrote:

Grumman wrote:In the last few pages of Contact by Carl Sagan, the protagonist, Eleanor Arroway, introduces the term "experimental theology." After being a life-time agnostic she is trying to find some hidden message in the number pi:

Well yes - if you express the full decimal expansion in binary and then convert it to ANSI, then you'll find the whole of the Bible, the Quran, the Upanishads and the Laws of Cricket embedded in it. Somewhere.

I agree it sounds ludicrous, but the general idea isn't far from that. The question is why didn't God choose to reveal Himself in an obvious way which was there for all to see. Sagan could have just as well thought about the so called fine structure constant, which is a dimensionless combination of the speed of light, the electron charge and Plank's constant. If it were different, there wouldn't be atoms as we know them, and consequently we wouldn't exist...which doesn't necessarily mean there couldn't be some other form of life.

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Grumman wrote:The question is why didn't God choose to reveal Himself in an obvious way which was there for all to see. Sagan could have just as well thought about the so called fine structure constant, which is a dimensionless combination of the speed of light, the electron charge and Plank's constant.

Did you intend to suggest that as an obvious way? I'd say God should just come on Oprah Winfrey. More people would get it.

DutchCrunch wrote:

Grumman wrote:The question is why didn't God choose to reveal Himself in an obvious way which was there for all to see. Sagan could have just as well thought about the so called fine structure constant, which is a dimensionless combination of the speed of light, the electron charge and Plank's constant.

Did you intend to suggest that as an obvious way? I'd say God should just come on Oprah Winfrey. More people would get it.

I misused the word obvious. I should have written evident, in the sense that the revelation it testable in a scientific way. Therefore the term experimental theology.

I'm not really defending this point of view, simply explaining it. Actually I believe that science and religion can't mix precisely because their sources of knowledge are quite different and non-conciliable. While the only valid source of knowledge for science is the scientific method, which allows for the evolution of theories, religion comes from Divine Revelation, which settles into permanent dogma. That some scientists (like Sagan) may believe that the existence of God is revealed by the order in the Universe doesn't make this a scientific fact.