The Republic of Heaven

What aspects of TAS annoyed you?? For me, it was the Gallevespian spies, the Deaths, and some of the stupid lines.

The only one I can think of (and this took a lot of thought to find one) is the way Mary looks around the world from an ecologist point of view. The parts about the trees dying and the way Dust came into that world and how Dust is leaving the world are all important, but there are a lot of extraneous details that don't fit in with the themes of the books.

some of the post-marzipan lyra-will lines were very cheesy... about their atoms sticking together forever... it could've been phrased better...

Yeah we had some fun a while ago paradying that part...

but jessia, those lines are the best! fair enough, if you read some bad prose which sounds really corny and cheesey, yep, that's tragic. but when you read HDM by pullman, you see that his prose his fantabulous, and when you come across some phrase by him that sounds cliched or cheesey, then i think that it's there for a reason.

the aforementioned marzipan speech and all that follows only really works in the dreamy, love-sick and totally corny way that pullman has written it. it shows how much lyra and will love each other, and without it, i think the strength of the ending would have been lessened.

anyway, i like corny moments.

-- darren

i didn't find the marzipan story cheesy, i thought it was great... the whole of mary malone's story actually... i just liked that entire chapter. i just found it cheesy the way they said their atoms would be inseparable when they died and made it through the world of the dead. i take back what i said about how it could've been rephrased though... it probably couldn't have been any other way within its context (lyra and will having seen the blissful dissolution of the dead after exiting the world of the dead). however, from quotes i'd take from the book just to keep in a notebook or something, that wouldn't be a passage that could sit alone.

How is that bit cheesy? They're in love! They ought to be inseperable as it is, but unusual circumstances (ahem...) make that the anomaly, so the eighty years' wait would mean they'd never leave each other again...

Yeah. When two people are in love.. it seems cheesy to everyone else.

Silly old everyone else

I know the mulefa were an important part of the story, but they just didn't seem to fit in with any of the plot. Those chapters with the mulefa were so boring I almost completely skipped them!

Aww I love the mulefa though!! I didn't think it was boring, and I really liked the idea of diamond-shaped leg arrangements.

I thought the mulefa were boring, but having read it again I like them - you can see how neatly it all fits in next time around

Maybe it was because of all the weird sci-fi books I've read before, but I didn't find the Mulefa boring...

Yeah, and most of the people I've talked to liked them, too.

I never though of the mulefa as boring, I liked the parts with the mulefa more than many other ones.

i liked the mulefa parts too. the first time i "read" the amber spyglass, i actually borrowed the audio books, 'cause the library's internet catologue said that "this copy of amber spyglass, the" had the least people on its waiting list. hearing the voices of the mulefa introduce themselves to dr. malone was cool. (plus pullman's got a really good story-telling voice.)

i found father gomez annoying. i mean all the suspense is built up and at the very end balthamos comes outta nowhere? it seemed like the author just wanted to finish the story and had to quickly tie up the loose ends.

In fact (im not trying to insinuate that im a better author than Mr. Pullman or anything but this is how id rewrite that same scene:
Father Gomez peered through the sights of his rifle to the love-stricken couple down in the clearing and focused upon the girl. It would have to be a perfect shot to avoid hitting the boy, but Father Gomez had training in the arts of assassination that would eventually commit the sin he had absolved himself of in advance. He took careful aim, and doing as he was taught took slow, deep breaths and slowly squeezed the trigger. A loud report shook the trees and almost simultaneaously two cries rose out of the forest.
The first came from Father Gomez himself as he felt the unnatural pain of someone clutching his daemon. He cast around and a voice from the air commanded, "Keep still, I have your daemon in my hand". He did as he was told but still searched with his eyes to catch a glimpse of his unknown foe. "Whe-Where are you? Who are you?",Father Gomez said frantically.
"My name is Balthamos", said the voice.
The second cry came from Lyra who was presently bleeding heavily out of the bullet wound in her leg. She had collapsed into Will's arms and was now breathing heavily. Will himself was in shock and could not find the strength to do anytthing but stare at the convulsing girl in his arms.
Father Gomez's aim had been thrown off at the last second, and thus did Balthamos redeem himself of his previous cowardice.
That didnt stop him however of being completely terrified. He was struggling down stream as fast as he could which, in his current condition, was not fast enough. Father Gomez was catching up and when he did,Balthamos knew, he would kill him in a second. An Angel of his rank was no match for a man, even if that angel was strong and healthy, and he was neither of those; besides which, he was still crippled with grief over Baruch and shame at having deserted Will before. He no longer even had the strength to fly.
Father Gomez rushed with all his might towards his daemon and finally reaching her, raised the butt of his rifle and brought it down hard on the creature he could not see but knew was there. Balthamos collapsed the ground, but as he did so he smiled, for Father Gomez, so intent on getting back his daemon had not noticed where the angel had led him."Will!", Balthamos cried.That was all it took to shake Will out of his stupor and look up toward the struggle. he did not notice that the man was beating an invisible spot on the ground, he only noticed that the man was carrying a large rifle.
The fury and rage that overtook all of Will's being was undescribable. He yelled. It was a horrible, primal yell that rose from the depths of his soul. Father Gomez had time only to look up before the boy was upon him, hacking and slashing again and again until nothing was left to cut.
When he saw the blood and guts on the forest floor and realized what he had done there was no remorse, no regret. This man had hurt Lyra, tried to kill Lyra and to Will there was no fate that could be painful enough for someone who had done that.
Balthamos, visible now that he was covered in Father Gomez's blood turned to Will. "I am sorry", was all he could say.
Baruch he thought oh, Baruch my dear, I have redeemed myself for you. I have done all I can, Will and the girl are safe, and everything will be well, but this is the end for me though I truly died when you did, Baruch, my beloved. And in a moment he was gone.
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I just thought it was a more satisfying end to see Father Gomez actually get off a shot and then be torn to pieces instead of how they did it in the book. Please post and tell me wat you think.

Heh...well, Will is not a murderer, and he doesn't really like killing, even for Lyra...

I also think it is a little too violent, but I like how it expresses Will's love, and also brings the action closer to the main characters.

I suppose PP wanted to give Balthamos a point in that last part of the story