The Republic of Heaven

Pullman is primarily a children's writer, so he can't include actual sex, as it would not be appropriate for younger children.

Have you read The Butterfly Tattoo?

not that he really acknowledges it, but the first chapter-about of the haunted storm.

Haven't read that myself, but I've heard that.

Dæmon: poor analysis of a book yes, but not of the writer. Saying Pullman is primarily a children's writer works because it's true. This is not a bad thing. Pullman uses his skill as a writer and the skill of his imagination to present a deeply descriptive image - as if to a child. The White Mercedes / Butterfly Tatoo would be the only one unmarketable as children's from what I've heard.

It's not that a book would be only for a child, but the majority of what he's written is enjoyed more among a younger audience, HDM excluded. It's the actual content compared with the back cover blurb. Automatically a demon hunter or a talking elephant requires more imagination, it's up to the reader to supply that or not. Back cover blurb Pullman is primarily a children's writer. In content, he can step away from that.

edit: you got to read The Haunted Storm?

This thread's only a bit pedophilic!!!Why are we all talking about a 13 year old and a 14 year old doing it??????I think it was just very passionate kissing.......... i mean it was their first kiss and with their true loves....... Its bound to be very passionate...

Why are we all talking about a 13 year old and a 14 year old doing it?

Because somebody brought the question up for discussion...

Why are we all talking about a 13 year old and a 14 year old doing it?

Because somebody brought the question up for discussion...

And a further 1214 replies were made, which clearly shows how much interest in the discussion there was. Though just how many replies were relevant I'm not sure. If you look through the thread, I think there's the same point made about 5 times

I think Rhovineth is completely right, it's up to the reader to interpret as they wish, personally i think they did, it's just the impression i got, i think they'd be much closer together if they did than if they didn't, make's their separation more impacting. Besides, it's all about growing up, i interpreted this as one of the main event's which takes them from being children to young adults. (And that's what i though the whole thing about Mary being the tempter was all about... didn't she tell Lyra that story which initiated the whole thing... )

But again, just my interpretation, everyone has their own views im sure.
And sorry to any of you people who are annoyed because all of this has more than likely been said before.

Yes, but whilst they were running around saving dead people and children they missed alot of school, so no sex ed...

they didn't have sex educatin, but i'd guess that will, living in our world, would know what to do, at least parts of it. on the other hand, i didn't get the impression that they had sex education in schools of lyra's world.
and if they did it or not... i guess we'll never know. i personally don't think they did, because the topic was never mentioned between the two of them in any way. i know that some people are going to say that has nothing to do with it, and it probably doesn't... i just can't imagine it. but their love was true, that much i know

Since when do people need sex education to tell them how to have sex?

Ooooh, i get it! Before sex ed there was no sex! *rolls eyes*

Question: How do you make an educational programme on something that doesn't exist yet?

The ability to have sex (and enjoy it) is inate.

Plus, sex education is supposed to make you more safe when having sex, not to educate you on how to have sex. I was certainly never given the Karma Sutra or shown a 'how to' video during my sex ed sessions.

Personally, no I don't think they had sex. But I think they wanted to.

Personally, no I don't think they had sex. But I think they wanted to.

I think if they wanted to have sex they would have, it certainly wasn't a question of finding the time.. (the boat trip back)

Personally, no I don't think they had sex. But I think they wanted to.

I think if they wanted to have sex they would have, it certainly wasn't a question of finding the time.. (the boat trip back)

When I say that I don't mean they wanted to have sex then, I mean that they wanted to eventually. Lyra during Marzipan was proof enough of that, but I don't think they acted on that. They are too young and at that age you don't need to have sex to satisfy that desire.

When I say that I don't mean they wanted to have sex then, I mean that they wanted to eventually. Lyra during Marzipan was proof enough of that, but I don't think they acted on that. They are too young and at that age you don't need to have sex to satisfy that desire.

Very true. Also when they were talking about how they couldnt stay together out on the dunes and Lyra says that she will go to Will's world, Will says to her:"...you and me grown up, just preparing to do the things we want to do- and then... it all comes to end." Perhaps this phraze could be referring to that and could indicate that they would eventually like to have sex but not at this time. They might not see sex as being nessessary at this time in their relationship and this could be the quote to indicate it.

:"...you and me grown up, just preparing to do the things we want to do- and then... it all comes to end." Perhaps this phraze could be referring to that and could indicate that they would eventually like to have sex but not at this time. They might not see sex as being nessessary at this time in their relationship and this could be the quote to indicate it.

Well, I wouldn't say that quote was about that. I'm sure Will and Lyra planned more things than just having sex.

Anyway, I was talking to Rosie about this the other day. She pointed out that a lot of the time Pan takes on very phallic forms, and then I pointed out that Kirjava eventually settled as a cat, which is also known as a....Well, you know what.

Then I re-read the section in The Dunes when Will touches Pan. If you take out the word 'daemon' and the description of the daemons it sounds very different indeed!

Will put his hand on hers. A new mood had taken hold of him, and he felt resolute and peaceful. Knowing exactly what he was doing and exactly what it would mean, he moved his hand from Lyra's wrist and stroked ...
Lyra gasped. But her surprise was mixed with a pleasure so like the joy that flooded through her when she had put the fruit to his lips that she couldn't protest, because she was breathless. With a racing heart she responded in the same way...

I'm not going to spell out what that sounds like to me.

I still don't think they had penetrative sex, but there is more than one kind of sex.

Then I re-read the section in The Dunes when Will touches Pan. If you take out the word 'daemon' and the description of the daemons it sounds very different indeed!

Will put his hand on hers. A new mood had taken hold of him, and he felt resolute and peaceful. Knowing exactly what he was doing and exactly what it would mean, he moved his hand from Lyra's wrist and stroked ...
Lyra gasped. But her surprise was mixed with a pleasure so like the joy that flooded through her when she had put the fruit to his lips that she couldn't protest, because she was breathless. With a racing heart she responded in the same way...

I'm not going to spell out what that sounds like to me.

I still don't think they had penetrative sex, but there is more than one kind of sex.

I think that scene was the most intimate Lyra and Will shared, whatever they did later on. When I first read it, I just assumed that they kissed and nothing more than that, but upon rereading I realised that it is open to interpretation...

Hell I wonder if they even know about stuff that far... Will probably, cos of school and all, but Lyra was always out and about just mucking about in the city, consumed in childish games etc, and she never had parents with her to have a quite chat with....

Anyway, I say no to the whole idea

Hell I wonder if they even know about stuff that far... Will probably, cos of school and all, but Lyra was always out and about just mucking about in the city, consumed in childish games etc, and she never had parents with her to have a quite chat with....

Anyway, I say no to the whole idea

As I've said before and will again, you don't need sex ed or parental advice, or even TV to teach you about sex.

Read some more of this thread and you might begin to change your mind.

I don't think Lyra and Will were that mature to think about gettin it on because in the subtle knife when Skadi talks about going to Asriels and "talking" it says the witches knew what she meant but both Will and Lyra had no clue

:"...you and me grown up, just preparing to do the things we want to do- and then... it all comes to end." Perhaps this phraze could be referring to that and could indicate that they would eventually like to have sex but not at this time. They might not see sex as being nessessary at this time in their relationship and this could be the quote to indicate it.

Well, I wouldn't say that quote was about that. I'm sure Will and Lyra planned more things than just having sex.

Anyway, I was talking to Rosie about this the other day. She pointed out that a lot of the time Pan takes on very phallic forms, and then I pointed out that Kirjava eventually settled as a cat, which is also known as a....Well, you know what.

Then I re-read the section in The Dunes when Will touches Pan. If you take out the word 'daemon' and the description of the daemons it sounds very different indeed!

Will put his hand on hers. A new mood had taken hold of him, and he felt resolute and peaceful. Knowing exactly what he was doing and exactly what it would mean, he moved his hand from Lyra's wrist and stroked ...
Lyra gasped. But her surprise was mixed with a pleasure so like the joy that flooded through her when she had put the fruit to his lips that she couldn't protest, because she was breathless. With a racing heart she responded in the same way...

I'm not going to spell out what that sounds like to me.

I still don't think they had penetrative sex, but there is more than one kind of sex.

That's the exact scene which I thought showed that sexual intimacy. You couldn't actually have them have sex, it wouldn't be right on multiple levels.

Wow, it took me longer to read 63 pages of this thread then TAS.

Is it just me, or does it seems pretty apparent that by calling Lyra, Eve, PP wrote himself into a corner, in which she had to be the mother of humanity… That she had to give birth to hope... That something cataclysmic needed to happen to her.

I think it is pretty silly to think a bout of puppy love could save the universe. That is not an epiphany. That is no a temptation by a serpent. That is not forbidden knowledge. You know where we have to go for “forbidden knowledge.â€

Is it just me, or does it seems pretty apparent that by calling Lyra, Eve, PP wrote himself into a corner, in which she had to be the mother of humanity… That she had to give birth to hope... That something cataclysmic needed to happen to her.

I think one idea from the books is that the original fall, is a good thing, therefore, a good thing is meant to happen to Lyra.