The Republic of Heaven

I apologise if this has been dsicussed before; my search turned up nothing.

Anyway, I've been wondering: Lyra had only been in Citagazze for about a week, right? So how on Earth did Asriel set up a massive stone tower and organise an equally massive army in such a short period of time? i wish I had his organisational skills.

I think a little bit of it could be put down to his mysterious ability to get whatever he wants (another ability I wouldn't mind learning), but not all.

So what do you think?

No one knows-even the whiches. She says that it must ahev been planned for hundreds of years, yet he has just arrived.

My theory? The angels where planning this a long, long time ago and have been building ever since. They just needed a leader-Asriel was propasised to come and they just waited.

Yes I think there was a lot of organising going on in advance. But I seem to remember having the impression that either time went slower in in Asriel's fortress world, or the implication that he might have been controlling time. A parallel to this for me has always been the concept in Artemis Fowl, that if the fairies put on a time stop, people can enter (or leave) the time stop at any time without affecting how it works. ie, when someone is sent for from within the time stop a messenger leaves, and takes 6 hours to collect the person in linear time. However when they return to the time stop it is only seconds after they originally left. A bit like the infinite improbability drive in the Adams books too.

I agree with you, Aust. That would probably explain why the angels all seemed to know about it.

Still, that doenst explain how they built all their stuff so quickly- King Ogunwe says they searched for that world with the Adamant Tower after Asriel came across and then built it. They must be pretty quick (then again, they could have got some advanced self-constructing tech from one of the many universes that joined them).

Plus a workforce of millions.

And could there have been other groups already fighting against the Authority before Asriel came along? They could have unified behind Asriel when he appeared, much in the same way that different resistance groups unified under one leadership in times of war.

And could there have been other groups already fighting against the Authority before Asriel came along? They could have unified behind Asriel when he appeared, much in the same way that different resistance groups unified under one leadership in times of war.

Well we know of two groups, and I expect theres more.

I think is a mix of all that, groups fighting before Asriel, and maybe a world where time moves diferently, and yet i believe the power Asriel had among his alies was so great that he could just whistle and everyone apears to make a huge fortress...

But the book doesn't make this clear: how much time passed from Lyra and Asriel transpassing the bridge to when Ruta Skadi sees the fortrees?

(and againd, sorry for the lame english =P )

I think is a mix of all that, groups fighting before Asriel, and maybe a world where time moves diferently, and yet i believe the power Asriel had among his alies was so great that he could just whistle and everyone apears to make a huge fortress...

But the book doesn't make this clear: how much time passed from Lyra and Asriel transpassing the bridge to when Ruta Skadi sees the fortrees?

(and againd, sorry for the lame english =P )

No problems. I couldn't do any better in protugese (I can't even spell it)

Humm, about 2-3 months I would guess, maybe less.

Humm, about 2-3 months I would guess, maybe less.

It's got to be less than 2 months. Lyra's only been in Citagazze for a maximum of a few weeks, if that, by the time Skadi shows up in Asriel's world. Time may have been accelarated in Asriel's world.

In the meantime, I wonder where he got the Intention craft from- the tech being used in the fortress doesn't seem to be advanced enough (they're still pouring iron into moulds and fighting with basic weaponary like single-shot rifles) to build a vehicle with what appears to be anti-grav propulsion and particle/plasma beam weaponary. You'd think that if they could build that they could arm their forces better. Still, I admit HDM isn't exactly the pinnacle of realism when it comes to technology (either that or they bought it form a more advanced world).

Humm, about 2-3 months I would guess, maybe less.

It's got to be less than 2 months. Lyra's only been in Citagazze for a maximum of a few weeks, if that, by the time Skadi shows up in Asriel's world. Time may have been accelarated in Asriel's world.

In the meantime, I wonder where he got the Intention craft from- the tech being used in the fortress doesn't seem to be advanced enough (they're still pouring iron into moulds and fighting with basic weaponary like single-shot rifles) to build a vehicle with what appears to be anti-grav propulsion and particle/plasma beam weaponary. You'd think that if they could build that they could arm their forces better. Still, I admit HDM isn't exactly the pinnacle of realism when it comes to technology (either that or they bought it form a more advanced world).

I think diffrent world have diffrent techs-those with single shot rifles will be from diffrent world as those with machine guns.

But honestly its just another hole. Theres a lot of them, PP isn't a millitary man, he won't have huge ideas of tactics/weapons. Also don't you think the tactics of the troops are a bit poor?

But honestly its just another hole. Theres a lot of them, PP isn't a millitary man, he won't have huge ideas of tactics/weapons. Also don't you think the tactics of the troops are a bit poor?

I agree. Many fictional worlds have crap tactics (starship troopers, ayone?). This is pretty poor though- they don't shoot down Coulter on the intention craft, when for all they knew she could have been taking the technology to metatron. And that's just the start. You have to sacrifice realism for awesomeness/plot details a lot of the time. For one thing, if they have the i-craft, then they should have things like nukes. Nobody launches a strike on the clouded mountain or adamant tower. And why does Metatron launch a direct assault on them without bombarding them first? The tower is above the ground, so a thermonuclear missile would level it in one hit. Asriel doesn't make as effective use of the i-crafts eiter.

The church's tactics at Bolvangar aren't good either, now that you mention it.

But honestly its just another hole. Theres a lot of them, PP isn't a millitary man, he won't have huge ideas of tactics/weapons. Also don't you think the tactics of the troops are a bit poor?

I agree. Many fictional worlds have crap tactics (starship troopers, ayone?). This is pretty poor though- they don't shoot down Coulter on the intention craft, when for all they knew she could have been taking the technology to metatron. And that's just the start. You have to sacrifice realism for awesomeness/plot details a lot of the time. For one thing, if they have the i-craft, then they should have things like nukes. Nobody launches a strike on the clouded mountain or adamant tower. And why does Metatron launch a direct assault on them without bombarding them first? The tower is above the ground, so a thermonuclear missile would level it in one hit. Asriel doesn't make as effective use of the i-crafts eiter.

The church's tactics at Bolvangar aren't good either, now that you mention it.

Yep, what I mean is that PP isn't a military man, so therefore he has no idea-look at his troops. They fight with WW1/19th centuary tactics-standin a line and shoot bsaically. No taking cover or anything.

Yeah, the tatics isn't soo detailed or good for a war book... but still i realy like the moves he describes, like the Panserbjornes or the fight between Will and Tulio

Yeah, the tatics isn't soo detailed or good for a war book... but still i realy like the moves he describes, like the Panserbjornes or the fight between Will and Tulio

I know, thtas my point... He isn't a war writer-he does fantasy. It isn't supposed to be realisitic.

Yeah, I don't understand how he got apes, lizards, and men witches all there from different worlds. I mean the windows are supposed to be invisible right. And his, as Skadi calls it, "the greatest palace ever" got built in a week or so too. Maybe PP rushed through that part, but if so it doesn't seem right cause he describes everything else in the trilogy so magnificently. Does he think we are retards or sometin

I just had a thought about this. Do you think the huge fortress could have been there from the last war in heaven? Perhaps it was used as a base before and that's the reason this world is empty of conscious life...

That still doesn't explain how he got an army from many different worlds together, but perhaps the angels had already been recruiting for a long time before Asriel arrived to take charge. Perhaps the rebel angels had been hiding out in that world for a long time, waiting for him.

That sounds possible. Of course the question then is, why was he allowed to take charge? As a mortal, he has obvious weaknesses compared to the angels, and even overlooking those the angels wouldn't immediately see his power. Were they forewarned of his arrival?

That sounds possible. Of course the question then is, why was he allowed to take charge? As a mortal, he has obvious weaknesses compared to the angels, and even overlooking those the angels wouldn't immediately see his power. Were they forewarned of his arrival?

But humans are stronger than angels, and I think hes probably in the prophercy as Satan/Lyras dad.