The Republic of Heaven

It's always struck me as incomplete that Giacomo should recognize Will provenance by the loss of two fingers with further explanation; but also strangely familar.

I've a half-memory of a Buddhist or Hindu tradition in which a saviour should be recognized by just such a mutilation.

Does Will actually get his fingers cut off by the knife? It doesn't seem to actually spell it out that he does; but it does mention a pain in his hand during the fight, before they fall away.

they are very much gone. it gets mentioned that he has lost the two fingers later on, one part is when he meets his father.

Well, he grabs onto the knife, feels a pain, and looks at the floor to see his fingers curled up there. It doesn't leave too much to the imagination.

Very Matrix-esque to reference across cultures. Of course we have Frodo and Beren as well.

Dante wrote:Does Will actually get his fingers cut off by the knife? It doesn't seem to actually spell it out that he does; but it does mention a pain in his hand during the fight, before they fall away.

It would be a little illogical for them not to be cut off by the knife. I mean you're in combat with someone with a really sharp knife that they're waving around, and then your fingers fall off. Hmm, you think, I'm pretty sure it was that slightly sharp chunk of lead over there.

The blade is never mentioned to have touched Will's fingers, so there's no need to be so ~*iguana*~ sarcastic. And there's the fact that the missing fingers are the badge of the bearer, which could be some kind of magical property of the knife. It would be a little coincidental if in every fight between bearers they lost the same two fingers.

Dante wrote:It would be a little coincidental if in every fight between bearers they lost the same two fingers.

That's the point.

I can't see how anyone can honestly argue that it wasn't the knife that cut Will's fingers off..

Will wrote:I can't see how anyone can honestly argue that it wasn't the knife that cut Will's fingers off..

No - but it's true that nowhere does it say that Will's fingers came into contact with the knife blade. I know this because it puzzled me and I read and re-read the passage to find out when it happened.

The real clue doesn't come until the next book, when Iorek is discussing the knife with Will. Iorek asks Will if he can see the edge, and he can't. The edge is so fine that the edge of the blade isn't visible.

So Will didn't realize his hand had come into contact with the edge because he couldn't see it or feel it! That is clever, I've never thought of the fight that way before.

Although Will wrapped his hand in rope to protect it--wouldn't the knife hitting the rope have caused some friction?--or did the knife just slice through everything like butter. Its a wonder Will didn't lose more fingers!

To Raeth--your avatar! Is that the 'blue pages' guy from the first Myst game? If it is, then...nifty!

Yes, a wonder, but such is fate...very well-read, Enitharmon.

Laura wrote:Although Will wrapped his hand in rope to protect it

That has always annoyed me - it's like a contrived rhyme - Pullman includes the thing about Will wrapping the rope around his hand to protect it against the knife - which doesn't seem like a very prudent course of action, circumstances considered - just to facilitate the dramatic effect of his fingers falling away when he removes the rope after the fight.

If you didn't know that the knife could cut through anything, rope wouldn't seem a bad protection. And it's the first thing to hand.

I thought somebody would say that, but not many people would pick up a rope and start wrapping it around their hand while someone with a knife was coming at them on the offchance that they'd be able to block with it - least of all our Will - basically, it is contrived. Contrivances piss me off lots.

I think it's something Will would've done. He had a little time, and thought of something rather than nothing to do, even if the use might be quite low.

Will's supposed to be a fighting expert, remember. And it's true, it would be a good defence against a normal knife.

I don't think any of the fights he'd been in had involved knives, somehow. It is contrived, whatever excuses you make for it.

It might be a bit contrived, but with some justification. Thinking of things like this is a bit Bondian of Will, I must admit.

I'd say Will's a very resourceful guy. For instance, the way he handled the bear raid on that village.

He's one tough cookie.
I think that Will is in fact very clever. You see this perhaps towards the end of TAS when Mary treats him like an adult, but most notably when she discusses pretty advanced evolution theorems with Will. Most 12 year olds don't/wouldn't care why there were a bunch of animals on wheels.