The Republic of Heaven

I loved the main trilogy, marred only by the excessive angst quotient in the ending. (Not going to debate the pros and cons of this one - de gustibus non disputandum - just explaining where I'm coming from.)

I'd be interested in reading more about Lyra [1] if she's moved on, is happy doing interesting things, has a new boyfriend, maybe is working on inventing a version of the alethiometer that adults can use with proficiency or something like that; but not if she's just moping around as though her life ended with the main story, which I'd guess as the most likely failure mode.

Can anyone who's read it give a verdict as to which is the case? (I'm not terribly concerned about spoilers.)

Thanks.

[1] I'd say ditto for Will and Mary except their problems from now on are going to be just the sort we have plenty of in real life, and in our own setting, so they wouldn't be very interesting to read about, and I'll just wish them luck instead.

There's a few opinions on it in here

Cookiemonster wrote:There's a few opinions on it in here

Yep, I read that thread, a mixture of opinions from people who liked it or didn't like it (consensus seems to be that it's a bit short but the extras are cool), but I didn't see any comments on whether Lyra's doing well or badly?

abc wrote:I thought it was nice to see Lyra had moved on. It would be possible that she became consumed by grief, though with her kind of character that isn't really likely. It was good to see she was back to her usual ways, messing about in Jordan.

You may as well just get it out of a library and read it, as it's so short it's not exactly going to be a huge waste of time if you decide it's not the kind of thing you wanted to read

There's a take on what Lyra's doing in her thirties here

I think an award for best plug to a sraffie's own product in one of their posts .

in another thread stargirl wrote:how did he manage to make lyras oxford so short? i wnated to burn it when i finished reading it becuase it just made me want more, how could he manage not to write more? essentially, what was the POINT of it?! did he just want to antagonize us?! is he planning on continuing it in the book of dust?

I remember this post quite vividly, because I so strongly disagreed with it I feel that on the surface, yes it is short. However, despite it being very basic, there is a plot, which seems to skim what we may see in TBoD. I think what stargirl may have missed was the purpose of the book. Well, it was written as a money making exercise, but ignore that It wasn't supposed to be a sequel or "Lyra meets Will book" or any of those. It wasn't even really supposed to be HDM I don't think, barring the fact that it featured characters from that series. You're right though, the extras are very cool. Both the extras, and the story itself allow us, to at least, gain more insight into Lyra's world and her life. It gives us more 'clues' to work with. Don't read it expecting an earth changing novel, because it isn't. Read it because it's an enjoyable 30 minute read, which will make you think even more about Lyra, Lyra's world, and Lyra's experiences.

wow I'm quoted here, and i almost missed it!
Dæmon, I wasn't saying that i didn't like TBoD, I though it was brilliant, (like usual), i was just frustrated because i got so into it and then it just, ended. i wasn't expecting it to be a lyra-meets-will sort of thing, i actually think that would have been quite awful, compleately changing and wrecking the whole story. it's been a while since I read TBoD though so maybe if I re-read it I will... i dunno, get more out of it. but i definitely see what you mean, i was just disappointed is all.

MbtE.

I think some people are forgettting that Lyra and the Birds is a short story, a quite different literary form from the novel. The tightly-written story you read in a session and which makes a single point beautifully.

Some would say it's superior one - not least those of us who would like to write more of them as a whole novel is a bit of a pill that takes forever. Unfortunately there's no market for them inn the UK these days, although it's long been the dominant literary form in the rest of Europe and to some extent in America. You find if you look at the shelves in bookshops that once an author is established in their field they get granted their volume of short stories.

I'm hoping the popularity of short story specialists like Ali Smith, Rose Tremain aand David Mitchell may lead to a much-needed revival of the short story. You should try Ali Smith - she's great and you''d enjoy her I'm sure.

Enitharmon wrote:There's a take on what Lyra's doing in her thirties here

Here, here, here, 'geo' ain't limited to Zetland!

Melancholy Man wrote:Here, here, here, 'geo' ain't limited to Zetland!

Hmm. I thought it was of Norse, rather than Gaelic, origin. Never mind - geos are wonderfully phallic aren't they!

It is, but they're found down in Caithness.

Melancholy Man wrote:It is, but they're found down in Caithness.

I believe you but thought Caithness was largely flat and low-lying? Don't you need rugged seaa cliffs to have geos?

Not at all (to the first point). Norsified Caithness may be based on the East Caithness plain, but the coastline is pretty high. Dunnet Head, the most northerly point on the British mainland, is 300 feet above sea level - during storms, the windows on the lighthouse have been smashed by stones kicked up from the waves.

This lighthouse, incidentially, was built by Robert Louis Stevenson's father. RLS was apprenticed there in the 1850s, and based much of his writing on the area. Ben Gunn, for instance, is a real Caithnessian name. He had a serious argument with a local family, and it's reputed that the map in 'Treasure Island' points to their treasure (there's a local gravestone showing a skeleton pointing it's finger). Furthermore, his tale 'The Merry Men of Mey' is based on a submarine phenomenon in the Pentland Firth.

I think the main objection is, not that it was a short story, but that it also wasn't a short price. Um, cheap price.

I'd be interested in reading more about Lyra [1] if she's moved on, is happy doing interesting things, has a new boyfriend, maybe is working on inventing a version of the alethiometer that adults can use with proficiency or something like that; but not if she's just moping around as though her life ended with the main story, which I'd guess as the most likely failure mode.

I don't get this attitude that everyone seems to have that Lyra is in desperate need of a boyfriend. May I remind you that in LO she is 14 - and this is a socially very old-fashioned England? Further more what's with the obsession to get her immediately paired off anyway. She does not need a boyfriend to be happy or complete or whatever. I love HDM but I'd like to read a young adult fantasy story about a girl who doesn't have finding a man as part of her itinerary for once.

I think people are so die hard to have her find someone so they can put an end to the "Will they meet again?" question. If Pullman writes more about them, but leaves it blank as to weather or not someone has came into there lives and helped them move on, then there'll always be that possibility that a future book will have the 2 meet again.

There's one question I have that I didn't get an awnser too in LO. How is Lyra doing witht he Alethiometer? We didn't find out about that.

I think that we actually find out that she isn't doing that well with it.In the story Lyra and the birds she finds out what the symbol the bird means.
Sorry if this is wrong!

that's quite a good way of looking at it...
i never thought of that

Pullman should publish 35 more short stories where something happens to Lyra that is in some way connected to each of the symbols...

Lyra and the Birds
Lyra and the Beehive
Lyra and the Apple...


...Lyra and the Alpha and Omega

It could go on for a very long time.

don't want to double post so here is something that I think and I don't know where else to put it.

I feel that when Lyra first reads the alethiometer when she is asking it about her and Will she can actually understand it she just dosen't want to understand it so she is doubting it. It is the doubt that makes her forget how to use it.

When she realizes that her and Will may never meet again then she will be able to read the alethiometer again.

Kyrillion wrote:

I'd be interested in reading more about Lyra [1] if she's moved on, is happy doing interesting things, has a new boyfriend, maybe is working on inventing a version of the alethiometer that adults can use with proficiency or something like that; but not if she's just moping around as though her life ended with the main story, which I'd guess as the most likely failure mode.

I don't get this attitude that everyone seems to have that Lyra is in desperate need of a boyfriend. May I remind you that in LO she is 14 - and this is a socially very old-fashioned England? Further more what's with the obsession to get her immediately paired off anyway. She does not need a boyfriend to be happy or complete or whatever. I love HDM but I'd like to read a young adult fantasy story about a girl who doesn't have finding a man as part of her itinerary for once.

Agreed, theres no guarantee she'll even get married or fall in love again-indeed I don't reckon she will. (Just a feeling, but I think her and Wills bond is too strong, I mean that whole Midsummers day thing might unnerve any prospective partner....) Plus, as you point out, she doesn't live in what you'd term as 'modern times' socially at least. It's highly unlike she'd have suitor at this age.

Personally I think she'll become a professor at Jordan and eventually the Mistress of the collage.