The Republic of Heaven

Since I'm new to this forum, it's possible that these questions have already been asked, but I'd just like to know an answer!

Ok, my first question is about the form of daemons. If I remember correctly one of the workers of Mrs. Coulter has a moth-formed daemon. Also, at the beginning of Northern Lights, when Lyra is staying with Mrs. Coulter there's a woman with a butterfly-formed daemon.
I found this sort of weird, because it seems very dangerous to have a very small insect-like daemon. I mean, someone could easily sit on it, which would kill the daemon and yourself! Maybe there's some sort of protection for this? Does anyone know?

My second question is about the names of daemons. Who gives a daemon his of her name? Is it the parents of the born baby? Or maybe the parents' daemons? It's all very vague to me!

His Dutch Materials wrote:Since I'm new to this forum, it's possible that these questions have already been asked, but I'd just like to know an answer!

Ok, my first question is about the form of dæmons. If I remember correctly one of the workers of Mrs. Coulter has a moth-formed dæmon. Also, at the beginning of Northern Lights, when Lyra is staying with Mrs. Coulter there's a woman with a butterfly-formed dæmon.
I found this sort of weird, because it seems very dangerous to have a very small insect-like dæmon. I mean, someone could easily sit on it, which would kill the dæmon and yourself! Maybe there's some sort of protection for this? Does anyone know?

Firstly, bear in mind that PP didn't work out the life-cycle of Daemonis Vulgaris when he first started to write HDM. He was - in his words - still discovering more things about them at the end of TAS.

In other words, he left lots of room for speculation. This is a Good Thing, but it means that there are not necessarily any definitive answers to your questions.

Adele Starminster's daemon (I named him Lysander) may seem vulnerable, but although he's small he's also very mobile. He can get out of trouble quickly. Bear in mind that the physics of small things makes them less vulnerable to harm from, e.g., falling.

To speculate further, you might imagine that the daemon-touching taboo in Lyra's world might extend to a sort of sixth sense that tells you when you're (too) close to another person's daemon. People who were deficient in that sense would be regarded as socially maladroit.

My second question is about the names of dæmons. Who gives a daemon his of her name? Is it the parents of the born baby? Or maybe the parents' dæmons? It's all very vague to me!

Yes, it is. I would suggest that they may be no single simple answer to this question.

Wow, thanks for your reply!

And I guess your right about the daemon-name issue! I guess there never will be a good answer for that question. Hmm, maybe it will be in the Book of Dust, who knows!?

I think its the parents daemons that decide on the name of the baby daemon. That would seem the most logical guess, but I don't know for sure.

modernmike0005 wrote:I think its the parents daemons that decide on the name of the baby daemon. That would seem the most logical guess, but I don't know for sure.

No, because nobody does. Using your proposition, explain "Kirjava". Or "Sayan Kotor". Or how the daemons of orphaned children are named.

"daemon", not "daemon", BTW.

I don't think there is any single answer to tesecond question. There could be many ways a daemon is named after all SP named Wills daemon.

His Dutch Materials wrote:Also, at the beginning of Northern Lights, when Lyra is staying with Mrs. Coulter there's a woman with a butterfly-formed dæmon.
I found this sort of weird, because it seems very dangerous to have a very small insect-like dæmon.

I just imagined a giant butterfly. 3-foot wingspan kinda size. Maybe I'm weird.

I always assumed that daemon names are just known. Like their not named but the person just comes in to the world and knows the name of their daemon. Either that or the human names them.

Ceres Wunderkind wrote:explain "Kirjava". Or "Sayan Kotor

I don't think it's really fair to use those as examples though because John and Will Parry weren't born in Lyra's world.

Jamie wrote:I always assumed that dæmon names are just known. Like their not named but the person just comes in to the world and knows the name of their dæmon. Either that or the human names them.

Ceres Wunderkind wrote:explain "Kirjava". Or "Sayan Kotor

I don't think it's really fair to use those as examples though because John and Will Parry weren't born in Lyra's world.

So they weren't, but they got their names from somewhere. And the question of orphan daemons remains open.

As I said up there, I think it's a Good Thing that the the world of HDM is not as hermetically sealed as, say, Middle Earth. It leaves such scope for imaginative speculation. It also tends to defeat those who try to lay down rules determining how it works.

Now shall we have the same-sex daemon discussion?

No

If you remember Serafina named Wills daemon. I guess that John Parry named his own daemon.

Watcher wrote:If you remember Serafina named Wills Dæmon. I guess that John Parry named his own dæmon.

Or another Shaman did.

Ceres Wunderkind wrote:Now shall we have the same-sex dæmon discussion?

No

Czigany is definitely female.

Watcher wrote:If you remember Serafina named Wills Dæmon. I guess that John Parry named his own dæmon.

I don't think there is one particular way dæmons are named. Everyone has different circumstances that require different responses. I agree with Ceres Wunderkind in that it's best not all the answers are given right there in the text. After all, shouldn't a good book make you think?