The Republic of Heaven

I was just sitting there, as you do, browsing archive footage of animals doing 'hilarious' things for the camera, as you do, when it occurred to me that it was never really made clear what restrictions there were put on the form daemons took. Do they have to be genuine living animals? Sure all the ones in the books were...but just think for a second. What if all the golden monkeys in the world were suddenly wiped out by some...monkey-targetting disease...that would make them extinct. Could a daemon of them then still exist? And if so...surely daemons of other extinct animals could exist to...like giant sloths and soforth...obviously without the giant bit. And then what about creatures like mulefa? They 'exist' to an extent...just not in Lyra's world...and then they're sentient...does that mean they'd be unable to be used as daemons or what? Because if you could have a mulefa daemon then surely a mulefa could have a human Not that the mulefa have daemons but...does anyone see what I'm getting at here? Or is it just my own need to keep myself amused that's making this make sense to me?

i'd assume the daemon could assume any form that exists on earth.

and then i'd say that it could probably assume any form imagined, i.e. dragon.

but a lot of times, the forms a daemon chooses to take on, or settles into later would be dependent on the environment... what's allowed by the climate, with what kind of animals/daemons the person grew up with/around.

I wonder what would happen if they made a child grow up without contact with animals? I'm pretty certain a couple of hundred years down the line that's what all the experimental tholigans will have moved on to over there XD

Probably the daemon would - hang on, I have no idea... it would have to change, because that's what children's daemons DO, but into what? And from what?

Damn these extended similies and their limitations, they make my brain hurt.

Well, the person will have to see some animals. Pan turned into a dragon when Lyra fought against the clay people so nothing stops dæmons from taking fantasy aniaml forms. It would just depend on the person soul. If you lived in africa and your dæmon became a monguse how well would it do if you moved to one of the poler caps, same if you dæmon was a seal and you moved to africa.

Crazy Bear Mc.Gubbins wrote:I wonder what would happen if they made a child grow up without contact with animals?

well then the only influences would be either the daemons of the grown-ups around or pictures/stories i guess?

Wouldnt a person that would be locked up like that have like, hardly a soul, they wouldn't really be able to get out much and create a personality.

sam wrote:Well, the person will have to see some animals.

Ahhh...now that just begs the question, what does a blind person's daemon look like?

sam wrote:Wouldnt a person that would be locked up like that have like, hardly a soul, they wouldn't really be able to get out much and create a personality.

well there's always variations on a species.

crazy bear wrote:Ahhh...now that just begs the question, what does a blind person's dæmon look like?

good question.

Well, they will have to have a dog dæmon or a monkey of some kind. Their dæmon looks for them I would say. If the body is blind doesn't mean the soul is.

What would be the first form the daemon took then? To get the eyes to see what it should really be? Or are you saying that the soul somehow sees without the aid of eyes...which to be honest creeps me out for some reason...just because the heart isn't blind doesn't make it sighted either o.O

ARRGGHHHH, this is soon turning into another 'how are dæmons born?'. Nobody knows what the dæmons first form is and I have asked this on the other 'how are dæmons born?' thread.

well newborns... their daemons... (assuming they have daemons the moment they first open their eyes) newborns don't see properly at first. everything's upside down. that would definitely skew their view on things, until they've adjusted their brain to flip the image upside down.

sam wrote:ARRGGHHHH, this is soon turning into another 'how are dæmons born?'. Nobody knows what the dæmons first form is and I have asked this on the other 'how are dæmons born?' thread.

I'm not trying to turn it into that o.O I just assumed a daemon would come into existence when a child was old enough to recognise a shape for it to take in the world.

Okay, new one: how do twins' daemons relate to one another? Obviously they wouldn't have to settle in the same form, as twins may have completely different personalities, but in childhood do crresponsing forms look the same? Would Elizibeth's daemon look like Jessica's daemon when they were dogs?

Or is the appearence of a daemon defined by personality? When Pantalaimon is a cat he's apprently always scruffy...

Kyrillion wrote:Okay, new one: how do twins' dæmons relate to one another? Obviously they wouldn't have to settle in the same form, as twins may have completely different personalities, but in childhood do crresponsing forms look the same? Would Elizibeth's dæmon look like Jessica's dæmon when they were dogs?

Or is the appearence of a dæmon defined by personality? When Pantalaimon is a cat he's apprently always scruffy...

Elizabeth and Jessica????? Have you been reading/watching SVH?

I suppose that if they were the in the same form they would still look different, maybe one scruffy and one neat or something; to express the differences in personality.

This now brings us to the question, if identical twins were kept together in isolation from the world around them so they would have no outside influences, would their daemons settle in the same form as the twins would have exactly the same life experiences, genetics etc?

Impossible to keep one person from out side life and influences, it will be hell to try and keep two in isolation for life. Well, I dont remember my emotions when I was born but I'm sure the dæmon would be a basic form of a mouse or a cat or a ermin. What ever the baby is feeling its soul will adapt to it and if the baby is crying I'm pretty sure that the dæmon would cry too.

Ah but could a daemon cry unless 'twere a crocodile? In which case only Steve Irwin would probably ever experience the phenomenom...

Elizabeth and Jessica????? Have you been reading/watching SVH?

Yes. So?

When I said cry I didn't mean tears (as I have heard at humans are the only animals that can cry(cry with the tears thingy cry)) I meant cry as in a cat hissing a miowing or a dog howling or a ermin... or a mouse squeaking.