The Republic of Heaven

I was talking to my friends veeeerrrry early in the morning after having passed out only a few hours before(so excuse me if this rambling is odd) about daemons and we were all trying to figure ours out and everything. (I bet nearly every single one of you has done something similar) And then we were just talking about daemons in general and I said something like...
"Do you think daemons settle later, here? I mean, I think in Lyra's world the late age is like, 13, but over here 13 is when we're just getting started. Because I feel like my daemon should be settled, according to their terms, but after all it's two different worlds and they probably married younger and died earlier over there...blah blah blah" and then we probably got up and ate breakfast, or something, because I don't remember anymore.
But yeah. My point is (look, there's a point!!) do you think daemon's settle later over here? I do. Not a lot later, but I think the span is longer. Or something. Or maybe it's just me since I can't for the life of me figure out what my daemon. Well? what do you think?

I think the median would be about 14 in our world, but it probably varies a lot. If you don't think your dæmon would be settled, you're probably right, even if you're past the "normal" age.

yeah, it seemed like in Lyra's world, people "grew up" sooner than we do here.

Yeah, I just assumed that it was based on maturity level when daemons settled. I never thought it was defined age for anyone.

also lyra's world was quite victorian, a time where people were married off younger and stuff.

but does the settling of daemons happen at physical puberty or mental (and other not-physical aspects) puberty? because even in our world, there are children going through puberty far earlier than they're supposed to, as young as four, because they were badly effected by the growth hormones in the food they eat (eg. milk and beef, cows are fed gh, same with poultry). however, these kids aren't really matured yet, though their bodies have grown first.

I think its more of a mental maturity... and do we really know what the average was for Lyra's World? I mean, Pan probably wouldn't have settled that early if she had just stayed in Oxford... at least not that soon anyway. She was only 11/12... probably would have been another two years or so (I think 14 or 15 would be the usual settling age, not much different, but yeah...)...but since she met up with Will, Pan settled. So I think it probably would be the same. Or similar. Somewhat. Yeah....... *goes off to find something else to do*

in tas, will asked lyra when daemons normally settled and lyra guessed it was usually around their age.

I was thinking about this the other day and I think that rather than daemons settling at mental maturity, I think they settle when the person is content with themselves or they know what kind of person they are.
I think in a way for your daemon to settle, you have to settle in yourself.

Arguably the point where you are comfortable with who you are is the point at which you reach mental maturity.

That's kinda skewed logic, because that means most of the adults I know ( and their daemons would be settled, right?) aren't mentally mature.

well there's a difference between being immature and acting immature.

Don't forget that here we reach physical maturity much sooner than a couple hundred years ago, for a couple reasons. One is the hormones and steroids and everything that they put in chickens and stuff. (For more meat to sell and make more money.) There are probably other reasons, but that was the main one we talked about in English. (Romeo and Juliet, don't ask)

Uh...how does that work? Wouldn't the protiens and steroids be pretty much broken down before absorbed?

hormones too: farmers put growth hormones in cows, to increase milk production or have the cows grow bigger for beef. hormones get passed into our systems through the food we eat, therefore we absorb lots of gH. also, some shampoos have estrogen in them i believe, though there's no actual benefit from it, but the estrogen is absorbed, and thus some girls are going through puberty earlier and earlier. same with the cows, and chicken i guess.

oh the glorious things we've done in the name of profits... um.. i mean capitalism!

Also it's the fact that food is much more abundant, and previously humans simply weren't filling out their genetic potential due to malnutrition, and were also developing later.

About the hormone thing, I read an article which said that so much estrogen was reaching waterways through women taking the pill and err...going to the toilet, that the reproductive capacity of male fish was beginning to be adversely affected. Just a thought for you guys out there, where does our water come from?

eloquent wrote:Arguably the point where you are comfortable with who you are is the point at which you reach mental maturity.

I know quite a few people who are mentally mature but don't yet know what kind of person they are, and some have to experiment a bit to work that out.

I never saw Lyra's world as "Victorian", as such... I once read a book about an alternate reality in which WWI never happened, and Lyra's world reminds me a lot of that. I don't see any reason why they should still be marrying/dying very young.

I don't think we mature any faster in this world than we would in Lyra's... it's just that we have all this pop culture making kids wear make-up and read magazines and pretending to be mature. Anyway, isn't the point you mature linked with the point that Dust becomes attracted to you? Would social differences really affect that?

sagittaire wrote:

I don't think we mature any faster in this world than we would in Lyra's... it's just that we have all this pop culture making kids wear make-up and read magazines and pretending to be mature. Anyway, isn't the point you mature linked with the point that Dust becomes attracted to you? Would social differences really affect that?

why wouldn't enviroment affect your maturity level? Your maturity level is party based on genes and party based on enviroment. my maturity level would be different if i lived in chile, than if i lived in NewYork.

That's true. You are of course profoundly affected by your genes, but you are also changed by environment. A harsh environment (i.e. before society) would make people mature much faster and be generally harder. This is all part of human adaptation, adapting to cope with your environment. It is not evolution. Adaptation happens within the individual.