[Final.Hippie]

The ending of TAS was rushed and too sad and rather random. I know it'll "leave and impression on me" but it's a bad one!

[AySz88]

Hmm...rushed and random? Could you explain more?

[jessia]

i thought it made sense... it was sad, but it made sense... the whole pattern of severing throught the plot.

[Isobel]

At first, I thought it was a really bad ending because I thought Lyra and Will should be together. If you dislike the ending because it's so sad, I completely understand that. But it's really the best ending possible. If you think about the story, and the message and all that...a happy ending just wouldn't be very powerful. And books like HDM really need a powerful ending that deeply affect their readers, I think. Even if it makes us sad.

[Final.Hippie]

I agree it was powerful, but I think I would rather walk away a happy man from a book.
Of course it's also a huge parallel to real life. As soon as you get something truly great, you lose it.
And the thing with following the pattern... I thought that's a reason that they should stay together. Lyra didn't have an easy life to say the least, so I thought old Phillipe might have the self-decency to give her a happy ending... and Will, I mean he definately deserved a break. Then suddenly they are wrenched apart, thrown into their own worlds any possibility of seeing each other closed, no contact possible. Pullman sacrificed Mrs. Coulter and Lord Asriel into the Abyss (in one of the most ridiculous fight scenes ever) But I guess if it was 'powerful' we should all be satisfied and go home with a big smile on our face.

And now to my other point, it was most definately rushed and random. So much for the power of the "Authority" a little ghost man in a glass thing that died in under a paragraph. But wait theres still the Regent, the Metatron! Uber powerful angel with the power of the Authority- Wait no. Oh well so much for that he just fell into the Abyss somehow, and Lyra's parents jumped in after him (a very needed sacrifice of course). Well then... I guess we can deal with that, it makes the book more 'powerful'... but now we get to see the utter importance of Mary Malone and the Mulefa! Well sorry folks it turns out there is none other than dreamy and mildly romantic stories by the fire for Mary and the Mulefa were kinda cool with those wheels... It's a good thing Pullman spent 100+ pages talking about their irrelevent culture... I mean what would he spend it on... the death of Lyra's parents? Bah... The destruction of GOD!? Meh, that's not so interesting... How about the battle, the clash between the Heavens and Earth! But hell, lets go on a kitty chase and study some trees.

While the hate and anger of this post was mostly fueled by the sheer power of the end of the book, I do take full responsibility for everything I said. This series had so much potential... SO MUCH PONTENTIAL and he squandered it on some tree huggers. Man I wish he would rewrite the ending! Golden Compass was in my opinion perfect, I loved the way he wrote it. Frankly the second book was rushed, and while it was a simple interlude to connect TGC and TAS he could have done a better job. I was glued to the third book in every second of my spare time, no matter if I only got to read a sentence, it was worth it- until the end. Pullman has definately never heard of closure or climax, I wish I could just eat the last 100 pages or so and make him rewrite them, this time let's throw in some coherence!

*braces self for bashing*

[Pyr]

i concur
the battle and death of god and death of lyras parents were rushed
but i liked the tree huggers
he should have just written the rest of the book like he wrote the mulefa bits
and the little guys that rode on dragonflies pissed me off
i dunno why it just seems like they were extras thrown in to make it a bit more exciting

[Nix]

I think someone totally missed the point of the Mulefa bits

Have you seen LOTR:TTT?

Everyso often during the big amazing battle which everyone is desperate to watch, it switches to the plot of Sam and Frodo, a calm and light thing. The whole point of which is to raise the suspense of the battle as they are so differant, if at one point you see an uruk-hai with a flame going towards explosives the pyromaniac inside everyone will automatically sit forward and want to see the explosion, but did PJ give them that straight away? No, he left it a few minutes building the anticipation.

Imagine if you have just eaten a large dinner, and then someone comes along with a cake you have to eat, and then imagine if someone gave you the cake after you had been fasting for 24 hours, which would taste better.

If you have a time of calmness, the action always seems better because you have been waiting for it.

They may be boring at the but in the big scale of things it is not entirely pointless as it makes the film / book / whatever it is, MUCh better and it makes it last longer as well and is just as important

Before you Say Anything, the Mulefa were important. If Mary hadnt gone to their world, no one would have found out about the dust leaking out, If the Mulefa hadnt known Mary before Lyra and Will came into their world out of the World of the Dead they would have been afraid, therefore leaving them in the open where Father Gomez could have got them.

[eloquent]

I completely agree, Nix. The fact that the plot regularly switched between contrasting facets of the story was completely deliberate. PP knew exactly what he was doing by splitting the story between the seemingly important 'God-destroying' part and the neo-anecdotal description of the Mulefa's utopia. This was all, as Nix said, to build suspense, and to construct variation and contrast. It is not PP just copping out or being mean, these are very legitimate and universally recognised literary devices. They are at the core of the very art of storytelling. Without them literature would be very same-ish indeed.

While reading the books, I noticed the powerful effect the alternating story paths had on me. On the one hand, whenever the story switched away from the main adventure, I was longing and looking forward to 'the next instalment', which made it all the sweeter when it did come. On the other hand I could sense some more subtle aspects of the story coming together. While the separate aspects seemed far apart, I knew that they must ultimately converge at the climax of the story. This built up a huge amount of anticipation, especially in TAS. It also had the positive effect of hugely broadening the base of the trilogy. Instead of just focusing on one or two central characters, the trilogy followed the stories of many different people and events, all different, but all connected in some way, which left PP free to weave an intricate web of suspense and causality.

If PP had just written about the main story (completely ignoring the fact that he would have had about 200 pages), it would have still been good, no doubt. But it certainly wouldn't have been anything special. The narrative would have varied very little, and there would have been little scope for an in-depth and meaningful plot. All the events would have had to have been linked in a single-track linear fashion. This would have given the trilogy a much smaller potential, and would have ruined most of the major themes and underlying messages. If it had been written as a constant 'action sequence', the action itself would have become boring and monotonous, and the reader would have few chances to break from the action and really consider the aspects of the story below the surface (which was partly the point of the Mulefa chapters).

[Final.Hippie]

[quote="Final.Hippie]
The Mulefa were not important, the same thing could have worked if there had been humans on the planet, and time would not have been wasted on their strange culture. [/quote]

Wow, how impatient can you get! The mulefa were fascinating and if it were simply humans there it would be quite frankly boring.

[quote="Final.Hippie]
And by the way if Mary had not gone to their world Father Gomez would not have either... tsk tsk [/quote]

Um, he was after Lyra. That's where Lyra went. So that's where he went.

[eloquent]

Hmmm...As I said, the neo-anecdotal style and content of that section was very important to the literary development of the story, and conveyed some improtant imagery that alowed the casual reader and analyst alike to understand much more about what HDM was really about, and what PP was really saying through his work.

[AySz88]

Let me ask you this: What do you think are the themes and messages of HDM?

[Final.Hippie]

Let me ask you this: What do you think are the themes and messages of HDM?

If this is about whether or not it should have ended sadly then don't bother because I now agree that it should have
Themes:
Lyra growing up
Love
Sacrifice
Adventure
Reformation of Heaven (Pullman rather abandoned this one near the end)
Regret

I'd say Pullman was drawing a realistic parallel with all our lives, that as soon as you get something you truly like, it is taken away, and that life ignores deserving and earning or as many people say: life is unfair. And this is the real reason why it's depressing, because it seems so true and lifelike to us and we feel really happy for Lyra, she's one of the most attractive personalities ever written. Then suddenly they are wrenched apart, and because it feels so real we see that real life is like that. And tis sad, so sad.

[jessia]

what do you mean when you say pullman abandoned the reformation at the end?

[Final.Hippie]

Um, he was after Lyra. That's where Lyra went. So that's where he went.

He was after Mary, the tempter to prevent the temptation and the reformation from happening... wasn't he?

what do you mean when you say pullman abandoned the reformation at the end?

He barely talked about anything not concerning the love of Will and Lyra at the end. I know that their love had great significance in the whole thing, but I mean he could have spent a little more time on the death of the authority and Metatron.

[Nix]

Um, he was after Lyra. That's where Lyra went. So that's where he went.

He was after Mary, the tempter to prevent the temptation and the reformation from happening... wasn't he?

No, he was sent out to kill lyra, and if it was possible, kill the temptor as well

[AySz88]

First of all, the death of the Authority and Metatron has almost nothing to do with Will and Lyra's story in HDM.
However, it does have to do with the big picture of the overall history of the HDM storyline: it's the conclusion(?) of the story that starts from the version of Genesis that will be in the Book of Dust.

The main significance of the death of Metatron in HDM was so that he can't kill Lyra and Will. The Authority's death, in my personal opinion, is showing that the results of Lyra's and Will's actions are not intentional and that HDM is a part of a larger plot...but that just could be me.

[Nix]

i couldnt have said that any better

[Will]

On the subject of the need for the calmer mulefa parts:

Pullman: You have to give the reader some sense of this large scale and the many strands of narrative in the story. And those many strands also allowed me to vary the pace. From moments of high stress and danger, I could move to another part of the story and have a few pages of quiet and peace.

[la bohemia]

The first time I read the ending, I didn't really like all the Mulefa bits because I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED and it made me impatient. But the second time I read it, I realized now beautiful it was, the peace and grace and simplicity of their culture with the backround of Lyra and Will, in a war-torn life. And I do think the older I get the more and more I love TASm because I see more and more, like the Chronicles of Narnia. (Except now I dislike those for pulling the wool over my eyes for so many years. TAS kindly showed me the light)
Final Hippie (cool name although untrue because I'm a hippie as well) excuse me for saying this, but I truly think you just Don't Get It.

[eloquent]

How could PP have spent any more time on the deaths of the Authority and Metatron? The Authority's death was just him being released from his crystal chamber. If that had been pulled out over pages and pages it wouldn't have been any better. And having him die any other way would have changed the story, not forgetting that the fact that the 'innocent' Will and Lyra killed him inadvertently, (and in doing so released him from his suffering and both a metaphorical and literal imprisonment) is supposed to mean something. Metatron's death (I thought) was fairly long and detailed. Remember it was an intense fight scene, and even the best authors can only sustain a fight scene for a relatively limited time before the quality starts to deteriorate. I thought that PP pushed it to fairly near it's limit. If he had made it any longer, it would have got boring and would have detracted from the rest of the story.