Do we forgive Marisa Coulter?

by **Quickwinters** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:54 pm

There was a tidy metaphor when Metatrons eyes were gouged out.

by **eniamrahc** » Tue May 25, 2004 1:57 pm

To sam: 'sacrifice'.

What metaphor :?:

To aesahaettr: I think you're quite right. And it enables us to forgive her because that decision showed her raw feelings - she didn't have much time to consider it - and it proves that she is, in essence, good.

by **Max** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:01 pm

I think Pullman's choice to phrase it as "she jumped with all her heart" is very significant, as it shows that all her being was focused away from malicious greed and on to her love for Lyra, so she was in essence 'redeemed'.

by **eniamrahc** » Tue May 25, 2004 2:21 pm

Alright, I think it's all settled.

Is anyone even against forgiving her :?:

by **Tomsy** » Tue May 25, 2004 3:51 pm

by **sam** » Tue May 25, 2004 5:09 pm

why sould we not forgive her then abc?

by **Tomsy** » Tue May 25, 2004 9:19 pm

Well, her final act was a good one, yes, but we can't completely wipe the slate clean of all her diabolical acts. The whole idea of "forgiveness" is very vague and silly anyway. I have thought so ever since my brother asked if I forgave him after he had broken my headphones about 8 years ago. I understood that he was sorry, but I was still angry with him, but I accepted that it was a mistake. Then tthat made me sorry for smashing his CD collection :twisted:

.I suppose that's what I find so diabolical about Mrs Coulter, she new damn well what she was doing. She never even seemed sorry for her deeds. I only think that forgiveness is deserved if a person truly repents it.

by **Crazy Bear Mc.Gubbins** » Wed May 26, 2004 7:49 am

Yeah, she may have 'earned' forgiveness there at the end, but did she deserve it? I think that would be an emphatic hell no!

She's like those bad tempered old misers who only repent on their deathbed just to cheat their way into eternal salvation. Nice try, but you're really not convincing anyone. I guess that's kind of a moot point though given Marisa didn't really find eternal salvation just a form of eternal torment o.O She was brave to make the choice she did, but as her ultimate ending just serves to highlight she never truly found her forgiveness. Nobody's going to know she ended up in the abyss really, she ended up going alone into the dark. Not really the same thing as redemption when you get down to it.

by **eniamrahc** » Wed May 26, 2004 1:28 pm

Well, you do have a point.

I suppose it all comes down whether you believe this: that it is what someone is at the moment, not what they've done before, by which you should judge them.

by **Tomsy** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:41 pm

I think you're confusing 'is' and 'does' dear Alaris.

by **Crazy Bear Mc.Gubbins** » Thu May 27, 2004 7:56 am

Well, you are what you do I suppose. Except in terms of certain...personal....habits. You may well find yourself remaining the same sex in these instances.

by **eniamrahc** » Thu May 27, 2004 1:09 pm

abc wrote:I think you're confusing 'is' and 'does' dear Alaris.

I am not.

My meaning was what Marisa Coulter is, which will ultimately influence what she does. See? :roll:

by **Tomsy** » Thu May 27, 2004 5:43 pm

In response to your original question, I think someone should be judged on everything you know about them. You shouldn't choose to take some things into account and disregard others.

H

by **Max** » Thu May 27, 2004 5:51 pm

abc wrote:In response to your original question, I think someone should be judged on everything you know about them. You shouldn't choose to take some things into account and disregard others.

I agree: You are who you are, a way of being; a person is in truth only a perspective upon reality, anything you do is merely an inevitable reaction to the configuration of reality seen through your perspective at any given time. Thus, if you know someone's situation throughout the time that effects that moment, you can judge their perspective and therefore who they are by observing their actions.

(Basically to judge someone based on an action you need to know what other events affected their decision to make that action.)

I write a lot of stuff like this.

by **Lance** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:16 pm

Didn't she realize her love for Lyra in the end? Isn't that enough for her to be forgiven?

by **eniamrahc** » Fri May 28, 2004 1:41 pm

YES, definitely.

To Max: I get what you mean, but she died to atone for her sins...what more do you want her to do :?:

by **Max** » Sun May 30, 2004 2:03 am

eniamrahc wrote:YES, definitely.

To Max: I get what you mean, but she died to atone for her sins...what more do you want her to do

Well the woman was beautiful So a few sexual favours wouldn't hurt... Unless they would, which is fine too :shifty:

by **eniamrahc** » Sun May 30, 2004 8:29 am

Shameless creature!

*looks contemptuously at Max*

by **King Chicken** » Sun May 30, 2004 9:22 am

Max wrote:
eniamrahc wrote:YES, definitely.

To Max: I get what you mean, but she died to atone for her sins...what more do you want her to do

Well the woman was beautiful So a few sexual favours wouldn't hurt... Unless they would, which is fine too

Well, she does have weird taste, I mean, how old was Boreal? But still, I doubt she'd bed you, ever.

by **Enitharmon** » Sun May 30, 2004 10:29 am

King Chicken wrote:Well, she does have weird taste, I mean, how old was Boreal? But still, I doubt she'd bed you, ever.

I don't think it was ever a matter of taste with Mrs Coulter. It was about power, and the challenge of being able to seduce the unseducable. I have discerrned plenty of evidence for supposing that Lord Boreal/Sir Charles was homosexual.

Do we forgive Marisa Coulter?

Did Marisa Coulter redeem herself?

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